Spiral Dynamics Stage Red vs. Stage Orange

[melodydanielluna]

I know they are different.  But I’m also struggling to understand how they are different.  I can see how Blue and Green are similar, but also radically different.  But Red and Orange seem so similar to me.  And I want to make sure I understand them correctly.  Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

[Snader]

Keep studying. Do more research and observe people and you'll see they are quite a lot different.

There is also that radical difference, but it may be more hidden to you depending on e.g. what kind of people you've been personally dealing with. Dealing with people especially in organizations where their values become exposed easily help a lot.

There is a featured thread on examples of every stage on Self-Actualization section that is worth checking out.

[Matt23]

Here ya go.

Orange

vs.

Red

Lol.  But sorta seriously too. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Matt23

[peqkno]

orange transcends blue and integrates it's circle of concern too. (means: orange transcends and includes "my country/nationality")
red doesn't have that circle of concern developed yet. It's very egoic, cares only about "me" and is only loyal to itself.
Orange is more in control of it's impulses, Red is impulsive.

Health Orange has the lessons of healthy Blue. Pure Red doesn't have those yet.

[lmfao]

@melodydanielluna Two things come to mind in explaining this. Make the distinction between red and orange as abstract memes, verses when you see people "at" red, people at orange. If someone has an integrated all these stages in theory, then they'll have some elements which are red, some elements which are orange. 

Maybe I can be quite "red" at times {I'm using this language tentatively because I don't believe in it}. Red is a pure desire for personal power. Ambitious in that sense. It takes notions of strength in a very a literal sense.

[melodydanielluna]

@Husseinisdoingfine  So interesting how stages return to the 'good' aspects of a previous stage, while taking the 'good' aspects of the stage they were just in, synthesizing the two and making something even stronger.

And thank you everyone for your help!

 

 

[Ya know]

Oh thanks I just made this thread without checking. Been on my mind as an athlete.  

Personally I've always had the skills / tangibles to be the best but due to my upbringing I suppressed my aggressive tendencies to fit in the schooling system. Now after interacting with individuals in a contact sport environment who have mastered red I see the value in it and have incorporated it into my life.

As a result my performance has sky rocketed. Without Red you are a bitch - period. You have guilt for stepping over others and winning (Blue shadow from education). You cannot be an Alpha - the top - The best - The one people look up to without teeth. 

That doesn't mean you have to be a cu** to everyone which is the downfall of red without Blue, orange, yellow, green. 

I love this Nieztche quote, so apt.

“Of all evil I deem you capable: Therefore I want good from you. Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws.”

When you are ''good'' (Nice) to others without the potential to harm them, you aren't good. You are a pussy. Only when you have the capacity to end someones life and choose not to do you become good. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Ya know
Include blue - Jesus really did help me

[Leo Gura]

Just study the Stage Red examples mega-thread.

[StarStruck]

Orange has higher intelligence and technology. 

[Bernardo Carleial]

On 9/6/2021 at 6:57 PM, melodydanielluna said:

I know they are different.  But I’m also struggling to understand how they are different.  I can see how Blue and Green are similar, but also radically different.  But Red and Orange seem so similar to me.  And I want to make sure I understand them correctly.  Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

@melodydanielluna is totally understandable your confusion towards vMEME Red and Orange.

Our culture does a terrible job at differentiating the two, specially when it comes to the entertainment industry, like movies, games and sports  when they make a misrepresentation of vMEME Red agression and violence for the sake of vMEME Orange entertainment, and not really taking the time to present the audience with a more broader perspective on why/how Red Emerges...

But If I have to give you clue on how to distinguish the two is this:

how each stage perceives and uses violence

VMEME Orange not only transcends vMEME Red, but also transcends vMEME Blue, which means that, if it was a healthy transition, they will recognize the importance of a life with discipline,  stability,  and the importance of work ethic(now with the exception that is for his/her own development, and not for the group).

vMEME Orange might emulate vMEME Red as an archetypal figure, to represent the self-reliance of an individual  who lives in an environment which is "every man for himself". When Orange gives an aggressive speech,  for example, they do so more for the sake of competition ("to crush the other players","to beat the market" etc...) than to be really serious about it.

While vMEME Red would use violence as a tool to "get to the top" and have all his need met, if in a hypothetical scenario, a vMEME Orange man/women resorts to violence, (like killing someone) in order to achieve something,  he/she would probably feel guilty/ashamed of it(might even have an existential crisis) and will try to hide this from everyone,  while vMEME Red would take pride on it, and will probably announce it to everybody,  because this is what it takes for them to keep in power, they have to constantly keep that image of being a tough guy and an intimidating figure in order for his authority never to be questioned, even if he got in prison. (even more so).

 

I know this post is a little bit lengthy... ??

But I tried my best to present you with a more broader notion, in order to emphasize the distinction between vMEME Orange vs vMEME Red.

I hope it helps ???

Edited January 12, 2022 by Bernardo Carleial

[itachi uchiha]

Difference between a warlord and a businessman

[Bernardo Carleial]

2 hours ago, itachi uchiha said:

Difference between a warlord and a businessman

In a nutshell...that's pretty much it.