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meow_meow

There is no meditation?

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Ok, so I'm closing in on 1,8 years of almost daily meditation (35 mins, sitting, eyes closed) and self-inquriy 2 - 3 times a week (25 min)

First months of this journey were of course spiritually incorrect since I was spending my meditation sessions thinking and organizing my thoughts, and only after the first ~3 months I finally got it to the point of observing thoghts and refocusing on my breath If any thought snatched my attention. 

Anyway,

I've recently (~4months ago) started Guided Meditation - The Next Level Of Meditation (By Leo, but credit goes out to Adyashanti) which basically guides you to let everything to be as it is, not controlling anything and letting go, somehow similar to the "Do nothing" tecnique.

So during these months I'm starting to suspect that by sitting and letting everything just to be as it is, - actually is already whats going on anyway, even if I'm not letting everything to be as it is, it does not matter because its happening anyway independently, on its own, without me. It does not matter if I try to control my thoughts or I dont, in both cases its already as it is, isnt it?

Also, if that's the case - meditation itself is already what is happening right now, there basically is no such 'thing' as meditation, if I'm correct then everything is already meditation?

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Yes, in can be said like that 👍

There is no 'you', a separate entity that controls something. To have a control you should have at least two objects, but there is only one (a.k.a. Non-Duality) 🙏


My Instagram: @dima.happy.living Open for private online sessions for spiritual guidance. Happy to help, by helping others we help ourselves 😊

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Osho says that he is in meditation 24/7, that he has become it. 

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3 hours ago, Vibroverse said:

 

Personally, one of the favourite videos. 

I'm yet to see such a pure clarity, perhaps if @Nahm will start the YT channel 😁🤍


My Instagram: @dima.happy.living Open for private online sessions for spiritual guidance. Happy to help, by helping others we help ourselves 😊

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@Nahm Yes, yes, mass murder, death, separation, evil, all those real things

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My Instagram: @dima.happy.living Open for private online sessions for spiritual guidance. Happy to help, by helping others we help ourselves 😊

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45 minutes ago, meow_meow said:

even if I'm not letting everything to be as it is, it does not matter because its happening anyway independently, on its own, without me. It does not matter if I try to control my thoughts or I dont, in both cases its already as it is, isnt it?

Yes, but there's huge difference actually, when you surrender controlling and just "be", you'll come to realize that no matter what, there's always inherent peace within "you", and peace is actually "your" true nature, and so the sufferings ends! unnecessary suffering will come to end! And "you" actually did nothing to end it! :)

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3 hours ago, meow_meow said:

Ok, so I'm closing in on 1,8 years of almost daily meditation (35 mins, sitting, eyes closed) and self-inquriy 2 - 3 times a week (25 min)

First months of this journey were of course spiritually incorrect since I was spending my meditation sessions thinking and organizing my thoughts, and only after the first ~3 months I finally got it to the point of observing thoghts and refocusing on my breath If any thought snatched my attention. 

Anyway,

I've recently (~4months ago) started Guided Meditation - The Next Level Of Meditation (By Leo, but credit goes out to Adyashanti) which basically guides you to let everything to be as it is, not controlling anything and letting go, somehow similar to the "Do nothing" tecnique.

So during these months I'm starting to suspect that by sitting and letting everything just to be as it is, - actually is already whats going on anyway, even if I'm not letting everything to be as it is, it does not matter because its happening anyway independently, on its own, without me. It does not matter if I try to control my thoughts or I dont, in both cases its already as it is, isnt it?

Also, if that's the case - meditation itself is already what is happening right now, there basically is no such 'thing' as meditation, if I'm correct then everything is already meditation?

Problem is that you completely misunderstand what it means, it doesn't  mean do nothing and live as you lived , what is the point to give such pointless practice that changes nothing, might as well  have said nothing. 

You are controlling anyway, difference is do you know what you are doing , or you just act impulsively on your experience, doing nothing is doing too. 

What not controlling anything and letting go means is that you observe and are aware of your experience, but at the same time you do not identify , cling to what is arising, it means for example thought "that guy over there is looking at me like he wants me to punch his teeth out" arises, what you don't do is identify with this thought ,

identifying will make you angry at the poor guy and more thoughts will come , or you don't make counterarguments in your head like,  it is wrong to think like that , why am I  thinking like that , just observe without any identification , if thought persists it means that you are doing something wrong, if you feel anger , or anything related to that thought you are doing it wrong. 

 

 

Edited by PureRogueQ

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3 hours ago, meow_meow said:

 Also, if that's the case - meditation itself is already what is happening right now, there basically is no such 'thing' as meditation, if I'm correct then everything is already meditation?

That depends on how you define "meditation". It would require a narrow defintion.

There are many different kinds of meditations, and many can be very valuable (from the relative perspective).

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Congratulations, you've discovered one of the main paradoxes in this work.

Unfortunately, this sounds like the "You are already enlightened" argument. Which is wrong. Keep going. 

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19 hours ago, PureRogueQ said:

What not controlling anything and letting go means is that you observe and are aware of your experience, but at the same time you do not identify , cling to what is arising, it means for example thought

Thanks for this, up to this point I was just watching thoughts and my emotional response to them anger, happyness, remorse etc. I thought that emotions arise as soon a thought gets my attention, I wasn't aware that emotions are caused by personal attachment to the thought. This is something newm that I'll definetly implement in my life. Thanks for this.

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19 hours ago, GreenWoods said:

That depends on how you define "meditation".

I've done some contemplation on "What is meditation" and I agree with Alan Watts, Krishnamurti & others that its not to be answered or defined. I couldn't define it aswell, because sitting with eyes closed/open, letting or watching thoughts or whatever is exactly sitting, watching or letting go, we could of course include a combination of these actions and define them all together as meditation, but thats not right.

How would You define it?

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Your insight is technically correct, but I doubt that if you were to stop doing formal practice life would experientially feel like meditation. Many of these masters talking about how there isn't "meditation," that life itself is meditation, have spent thousands of hours formally meditating. 

Additionally, there is something uniquely powerful about sitting and being that "moving/life meditation" does not replicate. The ego HATES it. There is a purify quality to the non-activity that just cannot be replicated. Don't count of dropping your meditation practice because of this insight. If anything, you should be doing more than 35 minutes plus an extra 25 a couple days a week. Try bumping up to 1 hour minimum 7 days per week and observe how the thoughts, emotions, and ego complex responds. It may love it at first, who knows. But I'd suspect you'll start digging into deeper levels of purification and attachment/addiction to activity. 

Good luck man! Your insight is definitely on point. 

Edited by Consilience

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10 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Try bumping up to 1 hour minimum 7 days per week

I was actually doing 1h meditation and 30mins self-inquiry 7days straight before, but at some point it just became so exhausting, booring and it felt like a chore, I really didn't want to do it, and the quality of my sessions dropped, so I took a break and came back with this time, which suits me quite well now, but I'll keep adding extra ~5minutes per month. Thanks for your advice.

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23 hours ago, meow_meow said:

Also, if that's the case - meditation itself is already what is happening right now, there basically is no such 'thing' as meditation, if I'm correct then everything is already meditation?

Technically, yes. Yet for most people, being continuously mindful during the day is quite difficult. Someone may start meditation by counting breaths and after a few breaths, they have lost all focus / awareness as their mind wanders off. It takes practice. Even if someone can maintain focus / awareness for most of a meditation session, the monkey mind returns as soon as they get on with their day. This is why many meditation do walking meditations - so we can carry on a meditative mindset off the cushion. It’s a bridge between formal seated meditation and regular life.

If you feel like you’ve hit a plateau with seated mediation, you may try adding in some more advanced stuff - like in the book The Mind Illuminated. Or try other forms of meditation like breathwork, yin yoga or kriya yoga. Sometimes I take a nature walk with the intention that it be a meditation session. 

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@meow_meow yeah, I also can't really define it. I don't like defining stuff. It's so relative.

But for practicality, I would say meditation has these main categories:

  • non-dual 
  • mindfulness, presence
  • concentration (active)
  • letting go, surrender (passive)
  • contemplation / inquiry 
  • trance 
  • Love, compassion
  • visualizations
  • (energy work)

(There might be more, but that's all what comes to my mind right now. And there are of course all sorts of combinations.)

Some of them can be integrated into your baseline continous every-day life. To some extend.

 

In the first post you asked whether "everything is already meditation". That is the case if you define meditation as "being You".

Edited by GreenWoods

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