Adeptus Psychonautica's direct response to Leo Gura

[Moksha]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Generally though, you will NEVER discover the truth via a conversation with someone else.

Maybe not the truth, but a deeper perspective on one facet of the truth, which happened to me this week.

[SpiritualAwakening]

45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Live inquiry?? You might as well be speaking of unicorns.

I am open to conversations with certain people about certain topics. But that's a very special situation. It must be the right person for the right reason in the right setting on the right topic with the right audience.

There is no working together towards the absolute. This is nonsense.

This is not something that happens in any YouTuber interaction.

I've had some of those conversations in private. But again, it requires a very special person and a very special situation.

Generally though, you will NEVER discover the truth via a conversation with someone else.

With working together towards the absolute I of course meant each individual acquiring their own realizations by having a conversation of mutual interest as you go along inquiring into the nature of what is. I agree it can only be done with certain individuals and the Youtube community is scarce that way. That's why i'm getting my shit going and who knows? Maybe i'll be the 'very special person' unless of course you're pointing to how many views one gets, but I doubt that.

Edited December 10, 2020 by SpiritualAwakening

[Leo Gura]

The thing is this: if Adeptus and I had a public talk to hash all this out, in the end all that would happen is that we would be talking past each other because we have relativistically different POV. These relativistic differences would not be resolved, and even if they were -- in the best case scenario -- all that would be revealed is a series of mutual misunderstandings. Nothing of substance would be revealed or learned.

This is the nature of all debates and public feuds. They are debates about nothing. Just differences in perspective based upon difference in consciousness, experience, and various biases.

So this kind of "spinning of wheels" is the kind of thing I wish to avoid with my creative energies. I see it all over YouTube and I have never seen anything that I value come out of it.

[Danioover9000]

   Okay, that's enough in-fighting for me today, time to re-focus towards the big war.

[SpiritualAwakening]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The thing is this: if Adeptus and I had a public talk to hash all this out, in the end all that would happen is that we would be talking past each other because we have relativistically different POV. These relativistic differences would not be resolved, and even if they were -- in the best case scenario -- all that would be revealed is a series of mutual misunderstandings. Nothing of substance would be revealed.

It doesn't matter what he thinks he knows about whatever he thinks he is perceiving. This guy is not serious about this work at all. He's interested in psychedelics for the sake of psychedelics. It's a case of just another identity trying to show how important his opinion is.

Edited December 10, 2020 by SpiritualAwakening

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

It doesn't matter what he thinks he knows about whatever he thinks he is perceiving. This guy is not serious about this work at all. He's interested in psychedelics for the sake of psychedelics. It's a case of just another identity trying to show how important his opinion is.

He is as serious as he feels is right for him and as his consciousness allows.

I have no interest in tearing him down. I am happy if he is doing his creative work and helping to popularize and educate about psychedelics. There is value in that and I want to morally support my fellow psychonaut pioneers. We psychonauts should not be fighting each other. We just need to recognize that we will have differences of perspective about psychedelics in the same way that spiritual teachers have differences in perspective about God.

[SpiritualAwakening]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

He is as serious as he feels is right for him and as his consciousness allows.

 

Exactly, so the opinions from a different/limited perception have no value. However you putting your energy in there is giving it value though. He already shut himself down by judging the work, so it's done.

[herghly]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

He is as serious as he feels is right for him and as his consciousness allows.

I have no interest in tearing him down. I am happy if he is doing his creative work and helping to popularize and educated about psychedelics. There is value in that and I want to morally support my fellow psychonaut pioneers. We psychonauts should not be fighting each other. We just need to recognize that we will have differences of perspective about psychedelics in the same way that spiritual teachers have differences in perspective about God.

Just from this reply you can see there is a big difference in development and maturity between you two.

[SpiritualAwakening]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is value in that and I want to morally support my fellow psychonaut pioneers. We psychonauts should not be fighting each other. We just need to recognize that we will have differences of perspective about psychedelics in the same way that spiritual teachers have differences in perspective about God.

You know he could have came with this approach, but he did not care about any of this, he only cared about showing how big of an opinion he has. But i absolutely agree.

[Victor van Rijn]

I fully agree with Leo's perspective and support his very constructive response to all the criticism. It is a very subtle and delicate balance of love and wisdom one needs to master in order to be a great teacher from an enlightened perspective in this specific human reality under these current circumstances. 

We can all learn a lot from this theme, discussion and co-creation by honestly reflecting on our personal reactions and underlying beliefs about ourselves and the nature of reality in order to collectively shift to a preferred parallel reality in which we simply appreciate each other's equally valid point of view and equally valuable contribution to the spiritual self-realization and actualization of our true divine nature. 

I invite you all to imagine your own version of heaven on earth including the most exciting ways we would be interacting with each other, enjoying all the beauty, creativity and learning opportunities that will naturally evolve and manifest by everyone being not only allowed or tolerated, but also consciously supported and encouraged from a young age to uniquely express their divine inspiration into physical reality, based on the inner understanding that we can only live harmoniously if we embrace the differences that unite us ultimately. 

Bashar (bashar.org) has mentioned that his civilization operates on the principle of 'syncrhonism': the natural synchronicity of all events, connections, circumstances, information etc relevant for all individuals at the right timing and that we as humanity are evolving into that kind of collective reality experience. In my own personal life I have frequently noticed this natural organizing principle by indeed following my highest excitement to the best of my ability without any hesitation or insistence upon what the outcome ought to be (the only relevant formula as expressed by Bashar for our current level of consciousness). And by acting on my excitement in all the directions I felt inspired to, I have encountered all the teachers and teachings that were in resonance with my intentions and desires.

Looking back at the last 20 years for example I feel very grateful for all the perfect orchestrations of circumstances, opportunities, relationships and information. And for me this empowering and enlightening journey has on a local, small level resulted in my own way of guiding others in their spiritual development. After having organized and guided about a thousand local meditation sessions and physically interacted with many people who are awakening or consciously pursuing the inner calling of their higher selves I have not only gained more practical wisdom but also a lot of respect for all the teachers who sincerely intend to be of service to our collective evolution. The more conscious you become, the more all encompassing you will perceive and understand the perfection of all that is, and the more subtle you will want to master the balance of your love with wisdom and your wisdom with love. Everyone you meet will be at their own unique stage of spiritual development and offers an opportunity to expand yourself.

As a practical exercise we may choose to discern everything by what inspires us the most, trusting that the inner experience of that feeling of joy, excitement or curiosity is naturally guiding us in the direction of our alignment, flow and fulfillment in life. This natural guidance can manifest in the form of teachers, teachings, information and other reflections, but know that you are creating your own reality by what you give your valuable attention, time, attitude and energy. Why would you even want to criticize another teacher or have an opinion about someone else? Be grateful instead and learn and be of service in your own unique constructive way please! 

Much love and light

[Leo Gura]

51 minutes ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

so the opinions from a different/limited perception have no value.

That's not correct. All value is relative.

[Leo Gura]

BTW, even though I said above that I have a policy of not engaging with reactionaries, I will still always be open to constructive feedback. I rarely get good constructive feedback, usually it's trolling type stuff which I ignore. But if I see genuine constructive feedback I will read it and take it into consideration since I do make mistakes and my ways of teaching can be improved.

[SpiritualAwakening]

27 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's not correct. All value is relative.

I'm saying if you were to engage in the public discussion you would definitely be giving it value, even if it's not for you.

Edited December 10, 2020 by SpiritualAwakening

[andyjohnsonman]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

It must be the right person for the right reason in the right setting on the right topic with the right audience.

I would be interested in you collaborating with Ken Wilber.Please make it happen he is getting old.

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, andyjohnsonman said:

I would be interested in you collaborating with Ken Wilber.Please make it happen he is getting old.

I am not interested in collaborations. I have my own work. Wilber has his own work. There is no need for us to collaborate.

I don't like doing things which have no purpose of being done. I have enough work cut out for me for the next 20 years. Everything else for me is a distraction from that. My work is not going to get much better all the sudden from collaborating with someone. It will actually get worse. My work is not of the type that is done by a group of people. I'm not in the business of engineering rocket ships here. I am an intellectual and intellectuals do their best work solo. If I wanted to work in a group I would be making video games.

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura Scientists 100 years ago always worked alone, and that was when the best discoveries in science happened. Think Einstein, Bohr, Planck, Dirac, Feynman, etc. They produced the greatest new discoveries. It’s a shame that science stopped being solo.

[andyjohnsonman]

1 hour ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

This guy is not serious about this work at all.

How can you know this? Rob might have had many profound awakenings.

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

It’s a shame that science stopped being solo.

It's hard to do modern science solo because the experiments are too complex and technical.

For the record, I'm not saying there's no value in collaborative spiritual work. There is. But that's not my forte. Find someone else for that job.

[Adamq8]

I understand Leo in this manner,  I think Adeptus is an interesting guy and have watched a few videos of his, Nice channel. 

But going to debate stuff about this topic is the least productive route in my opinion. 

I think Leo should do conversations with like minded people if anything and not someone who tries to debunk Leo's teaching. 

99% of the people won't understand Leo and project there insecurites on Leo and so forth.

This topic is extremely loaded.

It is full of traps and devilry. 

But for now i do feel that Leo should keep doing what he is doing and in the future maybe he can do collabs with other people perhaps.

[Zak]

Damn, I am learning so much from this discussion here. Thanks to Adaptus for raising his concerns here. I actually always wanted to see critics of Leo's work. But I think Leo is not doing a bad job defending his position here. Kudos to Leo. Continue your work, my buddy. You do you. Love.