The problem with radical open-mindedness

[mandyjw]

Just now, Moksha said:

Or put another way it is disintegrating the human form.

Something wrong with the human form? Sounds just like religion. Sins of the flesh. 

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

We tend to think a religious person is less open to various worldviews than a secular person 

None of those worldviews are built on anything true though. There's no difference. 

Atheists are very susceptible to the same kind of traps of religion itself (just framed in new beliefs about enlightenment) because they don't have the experience of having watched people around them fall into them their whole life. It's like being the younger sibling, you know what makes your older sibling get into trouble and you know to avoid it. 

24 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Let go of every last attachment, including language.

Maybe letting go of language means expressing yourself with it utterly completely and honestly. Maybe it means silence. I mean, who knows? 

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Even then, he believed in suffering and the end of suffering.

those are concepts of the budism that is a organized religion built around the idea of buda who is an enlightening person same to others,  is the idea of a human who is further of all idea or concept. The concepts of end of suffering are concepts created to attract the people who is suffering to this path. Maybe are real but aren't enlightenment

[Someone here]

13 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

None of those worldviews are built on anything true though. There's no difference. 

Atheists are very susceptible to the same kind of traps of religion itself (just framed in new beliefs about enlightenment) because they don't have the experience of having watched people around them fall into them their whole life. It's like being the younger sibling, you know what makes your older sibling get into trouble and you know to avoid it. 

The atheist vs religious is just an example. 

There is a Kernel of truth and kernel of falsehood in every worldview . However we can speak about people who are less attached to beliefs and ideology as more in touch with Truth and closer to enlightenment than those who are stuck in their mind thinking about the world in certain Ways and unable to see the limits of their worldview and here is where open mindedness comes in.. .. 

[mandyjw]

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

The atheist vs religious is just an example. 

There is a Kernel of truth and kernel of falsehood in every worldview . However we can speak about people who are less attached to beliefs and ideology as more in touch with Truth and closer to enlightenment than those who are stuck in their mind thinking about the world in certain Ways and unable to see the limits of their worldview and here is where open mindedness comes in.. .. 

Yes, true. 

[Member]

You HAVE TO become infinitely open minded otherwise you will die. Death is a construct of your own mind, btw. So since death does not exist, you will start the game over and over till you get it. There's no other choice if your ultimate nature is infinity.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Member

[gettoefl]

56 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

“...

-- Jim Newman

to summarize

 

from self realization

 

next is  self recognition

[An young being]

Better be fully open minded than being partial, otherwise you will become another religion.

[VeganAwake]

39 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

to summarize

 

from self realization

 

next is  self recognition

Self recognition is the death of the seeking energy/seeker that believed something needed to be recognized.

Typically what happens during half-assed awakenings, glimpses or mystical experiences is that, it feels so uncomfortable to be in freefall / free float, that the sense of self or ego immediately tries to rebuild itself and becoming identified as the true self higher self consciousness God... whatever floats the spiritual egos boat.

There's nothing right or wrong with it, it's just what seems to apparently happen.

❤

 

[Member]

1 minute ago, VeganAwake said:

Self recognition is the death of the seeking energy/seeker that believed something needed to be recognized.

Typically what happens during half-assed awakenings, glimpses or mystical experiences is that, it feels so uncomfortable to be in freefall / free float, that the sense of self or ego immediately tries to rebuild itself and becoming identified as the true self higher self consciousness God... whatever floats the spiritual egos boat.

Why the hell are you mixing the ego and the higher Self? The ego has nothing to do with the higher Self.

[Moksha]

2 hours ago, mandyjw said:

Something wrong with the human form? Sounds just like religion. Sins of the flesh. 

The human form is beautiful. I was referring to dissolving the conditioning that comes along with it.

[Moksha]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

those are concepts of the budism that is a organized religion built around the idea of buda who is an enlightening person same to others,  is the idea of a human who is further of all idea or concept. The concepts of end of suffering are concepts created to attract the people who is suffering to this path. Maybe are real but aren't enlightenment

So the Buddha taught the end of suffering but didn't believe the end of suffering?

[Moksha]

2 hours ago, Member said:

You HAVE TO become infinitely open minded otherwise you will die. Death is a construct of your own mind, btw. So since death does not exist, you will start the game over and over till you get it. There's no other choice if your ultimate nature is infinity.

^^^ Belief.

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Member said:

Why the hell are you mixing the ego and the higher Self? The ego has nothing to do with the higher Self.

There is no 'me' or 'you'. The ego and higher self are both illusory identifications stemming from the same source... identification with thinking.

 

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, Member said:

Why the hell are you mixing the ego and the higher Self? The ego has nothing to do with the higher Self.

The ego will do anything to avoid death, including posing as an enlightened being. If you have an identity around being enlightened, that is different from actually being enlightened.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Moksha

[Member]

16 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

There is no 'me' or 'you'. The ego and higher self are both illusory identifications stemming from the same source... identification with thinking.

You're identifying with mental images as well, don't play the Buddha because you won't trick me.

15 minutes ago, Moksha said:

including posing as an enlightened being. If you have an identity around being enlightened, that is different from actually being enlightened.

Never said that I consider myself to be enlightened. Be careful with your assumptions because you don't know me.

Also, you understand nothing from what I was trying to say.

Death to the ego but remember that the soul or whatever name you have for "it"... is eternal.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Member

[Moksha]

6 minutes ago, Member said:

You're identifying with mental images as well, don't play the Buddha because you won't trick me.

Never said that I consider myself to be enlightened. Be careful with your assumptions because you don't know me.

Also, you understand nothing from what I was trying to say.

Death to the ego but remember that the soul or whatever name you have for "it"... is eternal.

You're assuming I was referring to you. I wasn't.

On what you actually did say, I was referring to this:

So since death does not exist, you will start the game over and over till you get it.

Reincarnation is a belief.

[How to be wise]

@Someone here Entertain ideas without sticking to them. Aim to verify their truths by direct consciousness. 

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Someone here said:

You can't be open minded to something that goes against your direct experience.

Of course you can. Your direct experience is limited. It can expand. Hence you should be open to that.

6 hours ago, Someone here said:

How do I test the concept of "others are imaginary"? In my direct experience I can't for example undo or unimagine you. 

Psychedelic is the easiest way. Or through lots of meditation and awakening.

[Carl-Richard]

56 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@Someone here Entertain ideas without sticking to them.

and also don't forget that just because you're entertaining that idea, it doesn't make you immune to various self-deception mechanisms . Ideas are much more sticky than they might seem from your perspective. I learned that one the hard way.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Moksha said:

So the Buddha taught the end of suffering but didn't believe the end of suffering?

7 hours ago, Moksha said:

 

well, could be. Complete surrender to what is ,is in some way is the end of suffering or at least acceptance. Surrender has to make possible the necessary opening for what I consider to be enlightenment, opening the way to the light of truth, which will happen when all resistance ends, and the end of resistance seems to be the end of suffering. .difficult. I resist, I avoid the bad and I look for the good, and I don't see how I could stop doing this. I'm going to figth forever I'm afraid. I just had that realization

Edited October 30, 2020 by Breakingthewall