Vittorio

I feel I am near enlightenment, but I cannot break through. Why?

82 posts in this topic

@Vittorio Perhaps you made enlightenment conditional? I would let go of becoming enlightened and see it more as a process of moving more and more into alignment with reality. 


"As long as you're enthralled by a lifeless form, you're not free."

-A Buddha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Vittorio said:

Maybe I don't really want enlightenment and this is all mind trickery or such?

What's happening to me and why?

Why am I so depersonalized and I cannot move forward?

What should I do?

A ‘frame’ or ‘model’ of two scenarios for the sake of some manor of communication...

Scenario one...there is a foundation of meditation and or yoga (or similar practice) ‘resulting’ in ‘no mind’... a “disciplined body mind” in regard to well being (diet, health, etc)... a certain maturity of emotional intelligence & understanding... and a certain trajectory with respect to the relativity between experience and desire, or, momentum.......and then the breakthrough trip.

Scenario two is one of those foundational aspects is not in place...... and then the breakthrough trip, while delightful, inevitably seems to recede into an exacerbating of conceptualization of the breakthrough and of awakening. 

The difference is that of a mind ruminating via attempts to conceptualize infinity (yourself). If you go back and read your breakthrough trip report, you can notice the onset of the conceptualization of yourself via the adherence to perspectives like “enlightened state”, or “enlightenment experience”. This is like saying “myself state”, or “myself experience”. It is fragmenting, partitioning, sectioning, ‘part-ing’, categorizing, etc. 

Having said that, the simplest way to express this is that the finite mind or intellect has not realized the illusory nature of ‘itself’. “It” has yet to turn upon itself and see there is nothing there. “It” will continue in the direction of conceptualizing through lenses which share the theme of ‘parts’ in many ways, because “it” misses “it” is believing “itself” to be actual, or “a part”. This occurs as the falsity of “conceptual (dual) mapping”, like states vs no states, experience vs no experience, personhood vs no personhood, enlightenment vs not enlightened, woke vs not awake, regression vs “moving forward”, etc, etc, etc. You could categorize all of this as ‘thinking’, and or ‘comparing’, and or ultimately ‘judgement’. 

In essence, all roads lead to that you are the creator, and you create “reality” by being it. You can know much, all actually, about the ‘how’ of ‘this’, but the how can not be thought, so stop trying. Deep insight such as that is not finite voluntary thinking, which is to say conceptual, as that is all illusory rumination, but rather arises (and ‘stays’) in an empty ‘no mind’ and emptied ‘body’.  You are unconditional infinite and formless...yet to experience, there therefore will appear to be conditions, finite things, or form. (“Thoughts”, are just more apparent “things”). 

Unconditional + more unconditional does not = any experience, infinite can not know finite. I do not know how this advice finds you so to speak, but I would strongly recommend making a dreamboard, and creating the life you want to create, enjoying the experience of ‘doing’ so, and not focusing too much on any expectations of any outcomes. This is all that is really needed. And maybe some of these.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Vittorio said:

I think you're right. This leave me confused a bit. How can you have a desire to reach enlightenment, if you cannot have any desire of reaching it (desires are ego driven)?

I think it was Nisargadatta who said that the only desire that can finish all desire is the desire of being enlightened.

And that is the last desire you have to drop...

Quote

“The desire for truth is the highest of all desires, yet, it is still a desire. All desires must be given up for the real to be.....When all search ceases, it is the Supreme State.”
-- Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj"

 


Don’t you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you?
1 Corinthians 3:16

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Vittorio said:

Hi Vegan I read your suggestion in another thread and implemented your observation in my self-inquiry practice :) <3

I will have to sort it all out, before moving on. This day gave me many things to reflect about.

"I' will have to sort it all out before moving on"  is just another conditioned belief.

'I' have many things to reflect about = buying into a conditioned thought.

STOP believing just STOP!!!

and LOOK ❤

 

 

 

 

 


“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Vittorio said:

Here I am.

I read all your replies and did a bit of self-reflection and this is what I found out (please give me your takes).

What I am living right now is a state of high presence and despersonalization/detachment from myself, my feelings and reality as a whole.

This is a gift, because I now have a real ground to work about to reach enlightenment.

But I won't get enlightened IF I don't understand what's happening right now and change my attitude towards it and toward life in general.

I am actually stuck because of these reasons:

1) I have a practical and result oriented attitude that will do and sacrifice everything it takes to reach my goals (remaining in the "good" side). This has many negative sides. It causes neglecting my body, my needs and myself as a whole just for the result sake. By doing that, I rapidly lose touch with emotions and passion involved. This is not something I can reach without feeling any emotions like a mindless robot

2) I approach enlightenment with my mind only and not with being. I have a intuitive attitude and I channel insights random even in real life while doing groceries and such, so I am used to "understand" things through mind. Enlightenment is too big to be grasped with mind only. This is not some "mechanical stuff", this is much much bigger than what I can grasp with my mind. I have to ground myself into being

3) I have a fixation on reaching the goal and reaching it ASAP. This means practically I have a obstinacy to reach enlightenment (e. g. doing 3-4 hours straight self-inquiry, waking up during night and meditating and doing self-inquiry and the readyiness to give up all my identity and everything it takes to reach enlightenment). This causes frustration and obsession for the result. Maybe I must cease to be so stubborn

4) I don't clearly understanding the sacrality of enlightenment. To me enlightenment is something "cool" (almost like a simple achievement) and I still don't appreciate what it actually means to become enlightened. I will reflect on that and watch some documentaries on youtube

5) I don't fully appreciate the gift I have. I now have a much increased presence in the reality, almost 0 monkey mind, heightened perceptions and a state of depersonalization/detachment. This allows me to feel reality in a way that wasn't possible before. Instead of feeling reality with this new state and feeling compassion, appreciation and love for this, I keep my fixation on reaching the result. I will ground myself more into being and try to appreciate existence through looking at it with new eyes

6) Purpose of enlightenment is not the doing, but the being. As I said in the point 2, I am trying to grasp enlightenment principally with mind based methods. The feature of enlightenment is being grounded in being. Being means less doing and more presence. This means I have to cease doing all this brute force self-inquiry and enjoy existence

7) This is a test. It's not a case that I got stuck. This must happen. I got stuck for the purpose of self-reflecting and to understand what I am doing and what's enlightenment about (writing this topic too).

Really great reflections and insights that will carry you forward into more insights, keep going.  That said here's some more to reflect on.  What does the enlightenment your looking for look like?  What are you doing all this for?  Is there something about your old life that wasn't enough?, or was the person you thought you were a loser or a failure or some other negative notion and enlightenment would set you free from that or improve you?

Do you understand that your not a problem and theres nothing wrong with you right now and never was, all the feelings, and experience that it was true, were just idea's,  All idea's of being a failure, not kind enough, still get angry, confused, frustrated, diet isn't perfect, not meditating enough, are all just idea's and imagination in eachothers minds (fun games we play in our minds)?  Its all already ok.  Nothing needs to be fixed because nothing is broken fundamentally.  Let this sink in for a while, and once you've deeply understood this, sure maybe go out and volunteer if you like, make a good attempt at not road raging, improve your diet a little if it makes you sick, meditate to relax or just enjoy the moment, let kindness come through more and more here and there.  But again, there is nothing wrong with you already nor anyone for this matter (this is really important), because this is were you gain real understanding, compassion, acceptance, greater peace of mind around "others", and maybe it will start to reveal itself that "others" are really no different then "you/You".  Humans experiences challenges, struggles, fears, pains, family, bonds, love in various degree's, confusions, passions or lack there of, likes, dislikes,.  Humans come from the big bang, the earth, is made out of water, atoms, blood, tissue, experiences gravity.  Everyone's made out of empty space, energy.  Let go and let this sink in........you/You + "others" are all sharing something the same or VERY similar, isn't that amazing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You seem precise about everything except enlightenment itself. Define enlightenment. Try to put that goal in words. Maybe that'll help you navigate towards it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Vittorio One of the last realizations to have with Enlightenment is realizing You are not the one seeking Enlightenment You are aware of the one seeking Enlightenment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nahm said:

A ‘frame’ or ‘model’ of two scenarios for the sake of some manor of communication...

Scenario one...there is a foundation of meditation and or yoga (or similar practice) ‘resulting’ in ‘no mind’... a “disciplined body mind” in regard to well being (diet, health, etc)... a certain maturity of emotional intelligence & understanding... and a certain trajectory with respect to the relativity between experience and desire, or, momentum.......and then the breakthrough trip.

Scenario two is one of those foundational aspects is not in place...... and then the breakthrough trip, while delightful, inevitably seems to recede into an exacerbating of conceptualization of the breakthrough and of awakening. 

The difference is that of a mind ruminating via attempts to conceptualize infinity (yourself). If you go back and read your breakthrough trip report, you can notice the onset of the conceptualization of yourself via the adherence to perspectives like “enlightened state”, or “enlightenment experience”. This is like saying “myself state”, or “myself experience”. It is fragmenting, partitioning, sectioning, ‘part-ing’, categorizing, etc. 

Having said that, the simplest way to express this is that the finite mind or intellect has not realized the illusory nature of ‘itself’. “It” has yet to turn upon itself and see there is nothing there. “It” will continue in the direction of conceptualizing through lenses which share the theme of ‘parts’ in many ways, because “it” misses “it” is believing “itself” to be actual, or “a part”. This occurs as the falsity of “conceptual (dual) mapping”, like states vs no states, experience vs no experience, personhood vs no personhood, enlightenment vs not enlightened, woke vs not awake, regression vs “moving forward”, etc, etc, etc. You could categorize all of this as ‘thinking’, and or ‘comparing’, and or ultimately ‘judgement’. 

In essence, all roads lead to that you are the creator, and you create “reality” by being it. You can know much, all actually, about the ‘how’ of ‘this’, but the how can not be thought, so stop trying. Deep insight such as that is not finite voluntary thinking, which is to say conceptual, as that is all illusory rumination, but rather arises (and ‘stays’) in an empty ‘no mind’ and emptied ‘body’.  You are unconditional infinite and formless...yet to experience, there therefore will appear to be conditions, finite things, or form. (“Thoughts”, are just more apparent “things”). 

Unconditional + more unconditional does not = any experience, infinite can not know finite. I do not know how this advice finds you so to speak, but I would strongly recommend making a dreamboard, and creating the life you want to create, enjoying the experience of ‘doing’ so, and not focusing too much on any expectations of any outcomes. This is all that is really needed. And maybe some of these.

❤️

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nahm said:

A ‘frame’ or ‘model’ of two scenarios for the sake of some manor of communication...

Scenario one...there is a foundation of meditation and or yoga (or similar practice) ‘resulting’ in ‘no mind’... a “disciplined body mind” in regard to well being (diet, health, etc)... a certain maturity of emotional intelligence & understanding... and a certain trajectory with respect to the relativity between experience and desire, or, momentum.......and then the breakthrough trip.

Scenario two is one of those foundational aspects is not in place...... and then the breakthrough trip, while delightful, inevitably seems to recede into an exacerbating of conceptualization of the breakthrough and of awakening. 

The difference is that of a mind ruminating via attempts to conceptualize infinity (yourself). If you go back and read your breakthrough trip report, you can notice the onset of the conceptualization of yourself via the adherence to perspectives like “enlightened state”, or “enlightenment experience”. This is like saying “myself state”, or “myself experience”. It is fragmenting, partitioning, sectioning, ‘part-ing’, categorizing, etc. 

Having said that, the simplest way to express this is that the finite mind or intellect has not realized the illusory nature of ‘itself’. “It” has yet to turn upon itself and see there is nothing there. “It” will continue in the direction of conceptualizing through lenses which share the theme of ‘parts’ in many ways, because “it” misses “it” is believing “itself” to be actual, or “a part”. This occurs as the falsity of “conceptual (dual) mapping”, like states vs no states, experience vs no experience, personhood vs no personhood, enlightenment vs not enlightened, woke vs not awake, regression vs “moving forward”, etc, etc, etc. You could categorize all of this as ‘thinking’, and or ‘comparing’, and or ultimately ‘judgement’. 

In essence, all roads lead to that you are the creator, and you create “reality” by being it. You can know much, all actually, about the ‘how’ of ‘this’, but the how can not be thought, so stop trying. Deep insight such as that is not finite voluntary thinking, which is to say conceptual, as that is all illusory rumination, but rather arises (and ‘stays’) in an empty ‘no mind’ and emptied ‘body’.  You are unconditional infinite and formless...yet to experience, there therefore will appear to be conditions, finite things, or form. (“Thoughts”, are just more apparent “things”). 

Unconditional + more unconditional does not = any experience, infinite can not know finite. I do not know how this advice finds you so to speak, but I would strongly recommend making a dreamboard, and creating the life you want to create, enjoying the experience of ‘doing’ so, and not focusing too much on any expectations of any outcomes. This is all that is really needed. And maybe some of these.

Nahm, I went under a tree in the Park and listened to your song and I cried out of Joy. Joy to be alive. Thank you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the tree under where I cried. 

I realized that what I needed was Love, appreciation and Being in the present moment and then I cried out of Joy. 

I think this is the right direction. 

I went into this park as if it were the first time I went there. 

It seemed to me that nature was smiling at me. 

I noticed the magnificient of the nature. Every single leaf, tree, branches etc. 

I observed single leaves, branches and such. 

I smiled at the sun and it glowed stronger almost blinding me (coincidence)? 

I still don't feel any major shift but hey, at least I am a bit happier :)

20201019_175013.jpg

Edited by Vittorio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Da77en the last & well, really the only main realization  :)

 

agreed

1 hour ago, Da77en said:

@Vittorio One of the last realizations to have with Enlightenment is realizing You are not the one seeking Enlightenment You are aware of the one seeking Enlightenment.

 


⭕ ➡️ 🌀

♥ Love Is The Answer ♥
www.instagram.com/ev3rSunny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understood there are two forces inside of me. 

One, who wants to accept the current situation and realize that he has to ground itself in the present moment. 

One, who is not satisfied because I still did not complete Leo's checklist, is eager to "unlock" the achievement badge, refuse to accept what's happening and has fear to lose all progresses. 

I realized there is no one right way to get enlightened.

There are people who snaps and have everything at once.

There are people who experiences it gradually and slow.

And then there are people who experiences it fast. 

There are many different awakening to experience inside of enlightenment. Awakening to love for example is one side. Awakening to meaninglessness is another side. Awakening to infinity is another side. 

This does not mean I am not enlightened. 

I experience the "basic" signs of an enlightened person and my state is permanent, so I can admit (without using it as an achievement badge) that enlightement occoured, but I still have to experience bigger awakenings yet (e. g. opening myself more to infinite or to the illusion) and to permanent shift my state toward them. 

I have to let go more my ego and its fear, proudness and result oriented attitude and focus on Being and living a good life in the present moment. 

Still I am happy of my progresses. Every day I discover something new. 

This is all new to me but it's wonderful. 

Edited by Vittorio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, erik8lrl said:

@Vittorio Awakening is infinite. 

I know! That's what make me excited about :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Mu_ said:

@Vittorio Not sure if you saw my previous post, but it sounds like your well on your way in understanding what your looking for, your insights are very deep and fast.

Thank you! I had a tons of realization and insight to share. I will write a post about it.

Edited by Vittorio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, here I am!

I want to share many things that happened to me yesterday and today that I realized.

First, I want to describe, how I feel myself right now.

Before going to the park and having that breakthrough, I felt confused and detached.

After coming back, I felt more joyful and grounded on earth. I feel myself energetic, motivated and positive.

I feel myself more full and "roundier".

So, let's talk about my insights.

I am dividing them into different topics so it's easier for you to read what you like.

I am open to hear more from you (especially for the "I" topic, where I am a bit confused).

1) Misconceptions and confusion about "I": Who am I REALLY?

I had yesterday three occasions where I noticed afterwards that there was something strange.

The first occasion was as I cried out of joy at the park (see my post up here)

I felt it was not me (the me identity) who cried, but someone other else. In fact I felt a distance between who was crying and the me identity.

It was, as if my body cried on its own or that I have someone else inside of me who used the  body in which I still partially identify myself to cry.

The second occasion was after coming back home and having a discussion with my ex gf, who is still living with me.

I felt that there was someone else who was angry at her (it was some pain body attack). In fact, as soon as I noticed it, I stopped immediately my behavior and preferred to do a step back instead of losing awareness, wasting time etc (it was a goalless discussion).

The third occasion was yesterday, as I was talking with my best friend on the phone and we we were looking some funny guy on the internet. I laughed a lot. Much more than I usually would do for that. I felt it was not Vittorio who laughed, but someone else. And I felt it was natural to laugh so much.

So it seems there are two different entities inside of me: one, the "bad" one, which is the one I identified myself with. This is the passive one, the resentful one etc.

The other entity, the "good" one, is the one who is joyful, has understanding for the situation, is wise and know what's the best thing to do, can be present, can show gratitude, appreciation and joy (and much more).

So, who am I? The "bad" one or the "good" one?

Who governs me?

What is "me"?

Who is really speaking?

The good or the bad entity?

When I see at who am I, I see noone and nothing.

It seems that my thoughts and everything I perceive come out of nowhere.

If I close my eyes and focus on being, it seems as if all perceptions were in the same realm and if I were there in the middle, together with all these perceptions, in some kind of primordial soup and that's the true core of reality and what I am.

2) Ego was what brought me here, now I have to let it go to move forward

To pursue enlightenment there must be some ego driven motivation to let the ball roll and start pursuing it.

After a while, you'll understand that ego gets in your way and that will either slow you down or prevent you from reaching deeper awakenings.

This means I must:

  1. Become aware of what's left of my ego and how it works
  2. Stop giving my ego attentions and letting me govern from it
  3. Be mindful and avoid mental chatter and monkey mind
  4. Understand which ways does my ego use to slow me down from awakening (e.g. sense of proudness, sense of moral superiority, sense of achievement etc.)
  5. Stay in the Being as long as possible and make it my standard condition

3) Stop feeling myself morally better and cool

I understood why enlightened people don't want to talk about them as being enlightened.

First, normal people don't understand at all what enlightenment is (and are not even interested).

Second, telling someone who doesn't understand enlightenment that you are enlightened make you look a fool or "that strange guy".

Third, this is a ego driven attitude to feel yourself morally better and cool and feel that sense of proudness and getting approval from others.

This is a problem of mine, because I try to convey unconsciously and indirectly how cool, intellectual and insightful I am to get approval and recognition.

This is only mind game and make my ego stronger.

Rather, it's much better to feel humilty and gratitude for the gift you received.

As I said, I have to let it go or to reach fuller awakenings. It's a tradeoff.

I am more than happy to do this tradeoff, but it won't be easy.

The biggest misconceptions about "living in the present moment": What do people understand

I understand yesterday the biggest misconception about "living in the present moment".

People understand it in these ways:

  1. There is only the present moment, so I don't have to mind about consequences and I can do everything I want (even bad stuff)
  2. I must always act right now, because there is no other moment than now
  3. Do you have any doubt? Hey, there is only the now, just do it (Nike style)

Well, this is NOT what "living in the present moment" means.

I understand in the next point why, by talking about Mind vs Being.

4) Mind vs Being

I noticed that my monkey mind is something separated from me.

I noticed that Being is separated from my monkey mind, but it's the "real" me.

So I understood that the true core of living Reality is the Being and with Being I mean living reality in the present moment as it is, be feeling and living itself in a raw manner with all your perceptions without any distraction, monkey mind, projections or such.

This is what "living in the present moment" really means. Living without wandering off with your mind.

So there is Mind and there is Being and you have to learn to use them both properly to live good.

If you are in your Mind, then you are not in your Being (and viceversa)

Mind nullifies Being and Being nullifies Mind.

That's why meditation turn off Mind. Because the focus is on the Being and not on the Mind anymore.

Mind is neurotic and falsehood, Being is calm, happiness, Love and Truth.

5) Stop trying to understand everything and go with the flow

I understood that I have to take it easy and stop trying to grasp everything with my mind.

There will be the right time for me to deepen my understanding.

6) I must open myself more to life and to positive feelings

I have to open myself up more to life, to Love, Passion, Joy, Gratitude and let it go.

These things are actually missing in my life. I am not used to feel these things, if not sporadically. I have always been result centered and pragmatic (not materialist, only pragmatic) and did not enjoy the small things.

This is why it was hard to me to find a Vision or a LP. Because LP and Vision are passion driven and need clarity.

You cannot have any clarity, if you are super pragmatic and task oriented.

That's one of the reasons why I felt lost for so much time and didn't have any sense of direction.

Luckily I have more passion than before, but I feel there is much more to do here.

7) I am randomly waking up in the middle of the night 

This is the second night in a row I wake up around 4.30 AM in a state of high energy and presence (so no worries or anxiety).

After a while insights start plowing in.

I dunno why it happens (lol I just want to sleep).

Does anybody know why exactly?

Some monkey mind shows up too, so I must ground myself in Being and become as much present as possible and to relax myself.

I actually relaxed myself so much that after 15 minutes I went into sleep and had a crazy lucid dream experience (the second one in two days).

8) I am having crazy lucid dream experiences

I had yesterday and today crazy lucid dream experiences before fully waking up.

This is the first one.

Yesterday I was in this big space where it was a mixture between an open space/park and a house.

While sleeping I became fully consciously that I was in a dream.

I started testing the dream.

I pinched my arms and I felt pain.

I went then on a threadmill there and start running, to see if I got out of breath and tired.

And yes, it was just like "normal" reality, but it was rather another reality.

So I told to myself in my dream that that was so cool I had to wake up and tell my best friend @billiesimon about it.

And I did exactly that.

The second one was something stranger.

I was aware I was "here" and "there" simultaneously.

It was some creepy silent hill decadent setting.

I understood this was some kind of symbolic dream, where I had to fully exorcise a specific fear from my past caused by a paranormal activity I had in my childhood.

I exorcised it in a past trip, but it seems I am still not completely over it.

This time I was motivated to face it once and for all. I had no fear and felt totally in control of myself.

I was there to open this door and facing my fear.

And then... I woke up. Lolz, badass.

9) Reality will show up to give you hints about who you really are

This is something I discussed with my best friend @billiesimon.

What he felt in his direct experience is that perceptions and events are there to let you notice who you really are.

I felt something like that yesterday too.

As I went to the park, I felt how everything was different, as if it were the first time I was visiting that park and that reality was popping up around me as I moved.

I felt as if trees, branches, leaves and the entire universe were smiling at me and invited me to move further (= here I am and here you are).

I smiled and kept walking

I smiled at the sun and he shined brighter, warming me with his rays

I noticed the magnificence, the abundance and the perfection of reality with every single leaf, branch and grass stems

After a while I sat under a big tree, put my headphones on and listened to Beatles' song "Love is all you need" and focused on grounding myself in the present moment

Few seconds later I started crying a lot. Crying out of deep Joy, Gratitude, Appreciation and Love to be alive and to experience Life and I understood for some time that our existence is magic, precious and frail.

That's why we don't have to waste it and rather find our bliss in what we do and do what's make us the most passionate and joyful.

10) I am probably going to do a trip this weekend

I want to deepen my awakening and to root myself more into being, thus opening myself up to a more stable, profound and permanent shift.

My trip intention is reaching a deeper awakening and root myself more into Being permanently.

Edited by Vittorio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now