Enlightenment without Psychedelics

[The0Self]

2 minutes ago, arlin said:

Yes i also think that jim newman should awaken to some kind of love because it sounds cold.

Honestly I think Jim Newman already had all of that but at this point even if he didn't, there's no one left to do it. Kind of reminds me of Jed McKenna. Sometimes depression can be so intense that it turns into depersonalization, and sometimes depersonalization can be so intense that it turns into enlightenment.

[arlin]

@The0Self If there is no one left then yes, it's too late... 

Depersonalization? Do you consider depersonalization one of the steps to enlightenment? can you elaborate on that?

And in your opinion what's the difference?

[The0Self]

10 minutes ago, arlin said:

@The0Self If there is no one left then yes, it's too late... 

Depersonalization? Do you consider depersonalization one of the steps to enlightenment? can you elaborate on that?

And in your opinion what's the difference?

Depersonalization is generally not one of the steps to enlightenment. Depersonalization (often concurrent with derealization) is a very unpleasant and scary disorder in which the sufferer is made aware of the aspect of experience that the mind almost-primarily functions as the concealer of. It's impossible to describe, but it can probably most closely be described as the centerless-ness of personal experience. In depersonalization, a person is aware of voidness; in enlightenment, there is only void.

[arlin]

@The0Self does depersonalization include experience of no free will?

I believe i have gone through something similar or i have experienced no-self.

one of the 2. I felt that thoughts were not mine, as well as actions or decisions. I wrote in my diary this when it happened: "i feel that my past doesn't exist or that im not real" i didn't know much about spirituality, i didn't care. 

I saw the past like images, thoughts and sensations happening in the now. It was quite traumatic in fact i resisted it in evey way i could.

i went to school and eveybody never knew what was happening because on the outside i was the same as before to eveybody.

How can i know if i experienced depersonalization or no-self? i probably has some insight or awakening there

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, arlin said:

Rupert spira is all about peace and happiness while jim newman is about NO HOPE. And nobody to find it.

How can you say they are the same? 

None of them are about anything really. There's nothing lacking.  Hope can be the assumption that something is lacking, the glossing over it to look for happiness in the future. Each teacher has a unique way of pointing to something, people come from all different directions in their tactics to point. 

What you REALLY want, what you really are looking for, is not just limited to peace and happiness. It's not limited at all. 

[Moksha]

Buddha realized enlightenment as emptiness. His path was to strip away everything that he was not. Jesus realized enlightenment as abundance. His path was to love. Two teachers, pointing from different perspectives, at the same ultimate truth.

[mandyjw]

Just now, Moksha said:

Buddha realized enlightenment as emptiness. His path was to strip away everything that he was not. Jesus realized enlightenment as abundance. His path was to love. Two teachers, pointing from different perspectives, at the same ultimate truth.

Whatever you find it to "be" it's not what you thought it was. One person's revelation is another's cliché. 

[electroBeam]

@LfcCharlie4 Yeah RASA is just one placebo out of millions. You can do a year of rasa, or a year of psychedelics, or a year of self inquiry. Its not any more special than anything else. I think it gets a lot of attention disproportionally to other stuff, but its really just 1 thing out of many. 

Its definitely the same with psyches. You have to do at least 10 trips before you can evaluate its effectiveness. Same with self inquiry or any other method. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by electroBeam

[SilentTears]

4 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Buddha realized enlightenment as emptiness.

is this true? I always thought the Buddha path was one of love and appreciation. A wholeness so to speak. Maybe so empty there is only love to be found? 

I mean in surta's there is a lot of emptiness/no self realizations. Whatever lol. 

so empty there is neither the distinction of distinction and no distinction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HySLYcu2ULA&t  

Emptiness=wholeness=love=self=you

 

[Moksha]

14 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Whatever you find it to "be" it's not what you thought it was. One person's revelation is another's cliché. 

Consciousness is funny that way; it's never what you think it is

[The0Self]

27 minutes ago, arlin said:

@The0Self does depersonalization include experience of no free will?

I believe i have gone through something similar or i have experienced no-self.

one of the 2. I felt that thoughts were not mine, as well as actions or decisions. I wrote in my diary this when it happened: "i feel that my past doesn't exist or that im not real" i didn't know much about spirituality, i didn't care. 

I saw the past like images, thoughts and sensations happening in the now. It was quite traumatic in fact i resisted it in evey way i could.

i went to school and eveybody never knew what was happening because on the outside i was the same as before to eveybody.

How can i know if i experienced depersonalization or no-self? i probably has some insight or awakening there

It will likely include the experience of no free will. But in the case of depersonalization it isn't liberating -- for them they'd do anything to have the illusion of free will intact. It's literally terrifying for them. If you're not terrified, don't worry. You have simply had an awakening.

[Moksha]

6 minutes ago, SilentTears said:

Emptiness=wholeness=love=self=you

Exactly  It's like circling a diamond, and observing it from different angles. No matter which facet you view it from, it is always the same gem.

[SilentTears]

3 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Exactly  It's like circling a diamond, and observing it from different angles. No matter which facet you view it from, it is always the same gem.

Great analogy! 

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

 Yeah, I’m clueless when it comes to Reiki, I’d love to learn more if you can recommend any resources! 

You’re very familiar with it already, just calling it RASA.  

I realized my beef with this whole ‘rasa’ thing...it was that the acronym NASA is already taken. ???

@arlin

You seem a bit hung up on the ‘free will’. You can test this out in a simple way. Claim there is free will, and wiggle your fingers, then explain how the fingers wiggled, how you did that. Then claim there is not free will, and do the same thing. You’ll notice there is zero difference, except for what you were thinking. The entirety of reality is made of spontaneous infinite being. There are not-two. “Will” is conceptual, contingent on something to will over, or will against. Which there just isn’t. You’re perfect how you are right now, and you can change and create whatever you like going forward. 

[arlin]

@Nahm perfect explanation thank you! 

@The0Self thank you for your reply. 

I also think that sometimes the ego is not ready for awakening in fact, there are cases when it happends out of the blue and the person resists it and it's hell. 

What do you think? 

[GreenWoods]

@LfcCharlie4  It was quite enjoyable working with him:)

And his advice helped me resolve some issues.

[Dodo]

Not even one is Enlightened

[Raven1998]

what brain wave is better? i had my first awakening to no self. i have some kind of mental state after awakrning. what is rasa? what is that other substance?

[arlin]

@Raven1998 really? what's you rexperience like? What was it like?

Was it disturbing or all good?

[Raven1998]

6 minutes ago, arlin said:

@Raven1998 really? what's you rexperience like? What was it like?

Was it disturbing or all good?

i had panick attacks. i couldnt speak and my face disfigured for a while. and i had a feeling like a electrick shock in my back going through the spine to the head. and i felt a weight on my forehead and between the eyebrows.. my whole body started to shaking and my throat tightened i couldnt even breath for a while. but after those i had a blissfullness. i still having mild blissfull feeling. but not so intense. and now i can stay calm in every situation. and i can see my happiness increasing when i do eveything. because the mind doesnt resisting the current moment.