Is it really that bad to save sex for marriage? (Non-Religious)

[Shir]

22 hours ago, electroBeam said:

You think women are cars? Where if you use their vaginas too much, you need to go to the mechanic and buy a new one? 

@electroBeam THANK YOU.

[soos_mite_ah]

19 minutes ago, Shir said:

@Roy You were uncharitable the moment you made an analogy between women and cars and literally called every other reasoning stupid.

I don't take that shit lightly. 

Maybe you should start taking your own advice for once and not be uncharitable yourself? What a thought. 

@Roy Also to add on to that. Sex is not an act of charity, it's a personal choice. If anyone is put off by you wanting to wait, that's okay, they are allowed to have their own needs but they need to find someone else and you need to honor your needs as well. That would weed those people out and eventually you'll find someone else who is also willing to wait and as a result, no one will feel deprived (that is if both parties are being honest with themselves) which leads to a more healthy relationship.

Sex is not a given in every relationship and it isn't anything that anyone is entitled towards regardless of gender since it is a personal choice.  

[K Ghoul]

6 hours ago, Jacob Morres said:

the women is also testing the man in many cases and on many other things. if she isn't the wtf she's about to roll the die and pray to god her needs will be met. i mean if the sex bad asf 2-3x in a row and sex is important to you, imo that's a good thing to not take that relationship as seriously. especially if other needs arent being met either 

testing if a women meets your sexual needs doesn't mean he's treating her like an object

treating her like an object is a very specific thing, it's a distinction where the guy doesn't care about the girl's feelings or interests (which is a universal, excess stage orange (or red) phenomena that occurs in both men and woman and in also many other areas of life (business, relationships, parenting, friendships, government etc.) 

@Jacob Morres

I don't know what stage orange (or red) you're referring to, I'm not familiar with these stages classifications, what colors they have, etc. all I know is what you described (and what most modern relationships are) is some form of symbiosis founded entirely on exploitation of one another. 
If a test needs to be performed to see if someone meets your sexual needs it simply means that you are looking for someone whose primary role will be to satisfy you sexually. It's that simple.  

Given that men are initially looking for just sex when they start dating a woman, it falls onto a woman to set the dynamic of how their relationship will develop. If she doesn't start test-driving him and doesn't allow him test-driving her, I have a suspicion that such a relationship will have a chance to mature and evolve into something more than just fucking each other.

[soos_mite_ah]

Just in general I don't see how wanting to wait til marriage is regressing to traditional norms as long as waiting is genuinely what you want and isn't rooted with what other people or society thinks of you which includes notions of purity etc. 

It's also problematic to expect a person to not wait simply because of societal norms when they have made it clear that they do want to wait. 

What I'm trying to say is that waiting isn't regressive. Doing things because of other people 's expectations or society (regardless of if that means having sex or not) is what is actually regressive. 

In other words. Do you. 

[Shir]

3 hours ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

I can give you a male perspective on this one.

You can never be so sure. One of my friends is dating a highly religious girl. A hardcore christian you could say. She told him again and again that she wouldn't want to have sex before marriage. Guess what? They had sex after like three weeks.

The point is that you can never be too sure about what you want. Sometimes we think that we want "A" but then it turns out that it is "B" that we have been looking for all along. Could you have some alternate reasons? Some unconscious motives? If a girl I was dating said she would want to wait until marriage I honestly wouldn't believe her.

But that's probably just the impression that society has given me. Most girls I have met so far were pretty fake and not really my type.

My personal opinion, if you mean what you say: I would really respect it if a girl told me that she would want to wait until marriage. I personally can't respect women that don't have any respect for themselves. See, if a girl told me she would want to wait, the amount of respect I have for her would probably increase by quiet a lot. I like women that know what they want. I have met a lot of girls I could have had sex with, but I never did, because I had little respect for them. I am still saving myself for the right girl. I'd actually be happy to meet a girl that was doing the same thing. At the same time I wouldn't want a girl that was insecure/closed up/ashamed of her sexuality either. She should be open about this kind of stuff. It's simply a matter of self-worth for me.

Society and all those "cheap" girls (sorry if that sounds kind of mean, but that's just how I see them) I have met, have kind of shattered this picture for me though. So I have a hard time believing that I could ever find a girl like that.

@DefinitelyNotARobot Hey there! Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post, I really appreciate it  I found what you said highly interesting and mentally stimulating for sure.

The first story you shared was mindblowing lol! Poor Lady, I hope this is what she truly wanted though...seems so. You remind me of this Uni friend I had, this orthodox religious Lady I was super friends with - she confided in me that although she really wanted to save sex for marriage, she gave into her then bf a mere 3 months or so into dating. I felt bad for her because after telling me this, I spent the whole entire lecture with her CRYING her heart next to me - he left her and she was very heartbroken over the fact and that she gave into him like that. Mind you, I think he's a real jerk. I told her she's a big girl and can do whatever she likes but that he isn't good for her but they ending coming back together, eventually got married and now have a son. Till this day, I still feel bad for her because she doesn't really look that happy. Mind you, she's broken ties with me (unfortunetly) but I still care for her and would never want to be her. I'm not saying what she did was wrong, I think it was wrong for her and to fall in love with an actual jerk is the worst. She could have done better.

I HIGHLY respect what you said! When you mentioned you cannot respect a woman who does not have respect for herself. YES. YES. YES.

I know this sounds weird but I am so sure about what I want haha (saving sex for marriage). I would like nothing more. The whole idea of dating with that respected means the world to me. I'm tired of feeling pressured for sex all the time. And, my only "alternate" reason for my said post (as far as I can tell) is also a fear of rejection; I am woman enough to admit that. 

I feel like with age, I've gained (hopefully) enough confidence to stand my ground and hopefully the other side realizes I am serious and know what I want haha. Being 28, it's something that took time because I thought I needed to be a people pleaser but today after a lot of Therapy, I realize I am worth having my bounderies respected and cared about - the same that I would do for a man if he was actually the one wanting to save sex for marriage. 

[Consept]

I read your original post and most of the thread and fair enough its your decision and your view and i dont think anyone would be able to convince you otherwise. However i disagree with your premise that marriage is somehow sacred. 

If you look at most of human behavior it has its roots in evolutionary biology, marriage in the past has been very different to how we see it now. Most actions were made with the express purpose of assuring reproduction of ones genes and survival. In the past and maybe to some extent today marriage was a way for a man to restrict the sexual freedom of women to ensure that his genes were passed on through his wife, if marriage wasnt there his wife could sleep with whoever and there would be no way to know who impregnated her. Also it allowed the man to sleep with other women and maybe impregnate them but even if that didnt work the wife was still there and she would face harsh repercussions were she to sleep with anyone else. 

From the womans side their goal, evolution wise, is to have kids and make sure those kids are looked after. So their actions are to not only have sex and reproduce but also make sure that they are seen as having a good reputation so that a partner can trust them not to sleep with others so that hes comfortable to stay with her knowing the kids are his. This is why women defend their reputation as if they have a bad one its less likely a man will settle down with them. Its why women may lie about how many partners theyve had and claim less and a man would do the opposite. 

It should also be noted that marrying for 'love' is a relatively new phenomenon, traced back to around 150 years ago, before then you would marry to join families or for political and social gain, many marriages were arranged. Really marriage was a way to structure a blue society, similar to what some people like Jordan Peterson advocate today. So essentially marriage was a construct to benefit men and sexually control women. Also worth keeping in mind a lot of women were diagnosed by doctors as having hysteria (being horny) in which the treatment was for the doctor to masturbate them. 

So that brings us to today where it feels like women are now the ones pushing for marriage, we may say that they have been convinced that the values set in place by men have been internalised and through modern marketing, disney films etc, marriage has been given a romantic and all encompassing value by women. Ultimately society would want people to get married as that can keep them under control, and thats not necessarily a bad thing, but this is why i dont think theres anything sacred in a societal construct. The fact that people say its sacred goes to show how good the marketing was for it. 

I believe these evolutionary factors are the main reasons people would get married, have sex etc especially from SD stage red to orange, once you get to green and above i feel that you can start realising what truly loving someone entails. Most marriages will occur from red to orange so if most are not aware of what truly loving another is then just because they get married why would it automatically become sacred and deeper, in truth its just a story to wrap around the reality. 

I would encourage you to explore some of these ideas that ive tried to sum up, as i think the way you are strictly tied to your beliefs can actually limit your growth as a person. As @Preety_India said, sex without marriage can be incredibly meaningful, more so than married sex. If you just have one view, that its all about one night stands and whatnot you miss out on the reality of what it actually is.     

Edited August 13, 2020 by Consept

[Mada_]

On 11/08/2020 at 0:49 PM, Shir said:

-> Relgious/Spiritual reasons - Although I am not religious and only spiritual, I still DO believe in God's design to with hold sex within marriage ONLY. I really do feel that there is intelligent design and much thought put into this in regards to pro-creation, pleasure, intimacy ect.

Have you questioned this belief?

 

I don't think it is bad that you value health and authentic connection with your spouse, but sexual experiences are super fun and you can do it safely. 

[Gesundheit]

@Shir The majority of these reasons are self-biased for your own selfish concerns. They don't have any actual ground in reality, nor they are right or wrong. Some of them seem to be stemming from fear too.

However, If you're fine without sex, then fine no problem. Perhaps it's just me but it seems like you've come here seeking confirmation from others so that you don't feel lonely in the path you've chosen. You (perhaps) want to feel more confident about your choices through what I could call appealing to authority.

I don't have a particular stance on the subject, neither did I read your post completely, just the headlines. But just to point this out in case no one else did. I didn't read the replies either.

[Shir]

5 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

The majority of these reasons are self-biased for your own selfish concerns.

@Gesundheit Wanting to practice SAFE SEX within the confines of a sacred marriage is selfish? Okay. 

It's selfish to avoid having children out of wedlock? Okay.

It's selfish to NOT want to get pregnant at this point in my life & want to avoid abortions? Okay.

It's selfish to NOT pressure a man to stay with me if he DOES NOT want to save sex for marriage? Okay. 

I suggest you look up what being selfish tuly means.

If I ever have children, I would want them to be INTENTIONAL and only within marriage. I don't care to have sex before marriage. 

So sad that knowing what you want in this day and age is considered selfish.

[Shir]

6 hours ago, Mada_ said:

Have you questioned this belief?

@Mada_ Why would I need to if it makes perfect sense to me? ALL MY LIFE it made perfect sense to only have sex within marriage, I'm not even religious lol! The only thing that didn't make sense is literally how society works and treats it very, very lightly. I don't treat sex lightly. It has the power to create life. 

And listen, when I DID questin it - literally all that came up in my mind is WHY DO I EVEN WANT TO HAVE SEX BEFOREHAND? all the reasons that came up were literally just for selfish reasons, nothing more really. I wanted to feel pleasure, loved sexually, lusted over, fantasized about ect...it was all me me me me. I much prefer to practice safe and loving sex in marriage where it's intentional, more caring and has actual & proper commitment emotionally, mentally and legally. 

And, I totally understand that you said sex if fun - I bet it is !!!

But, I don't feel like the consequences are worth it at this point in my life. 

[Gesundheit]

1 minute ago, Shir said:

@Gesundheit Wanting to practice SAFE SEX within the confines of a sacred marriage is selfish?

There's no such things as safe sex or sacred marriage. You're creating these concepts and believing in them, for some reasons. The reality is that you can never guarantee that your husband will turn out to be a good person. In fact, marriage has been something a lot of people regret. I'm not saying that will necessarily be the case for you. I'm just trying to bring in more awareness.

2 minutes ago, Shir said:

@Gesundheit 

It's selfish to avoid having children out of wedlock? Okay.

Yes, you can have children both from within and without of wedlock. Yet, you chose to have them only from within. That is something you've chosen, and it's not really noble or anything. But it may seem that way to you. Again, I'm not judging your preferences. You're free to do whatever you want. I'm just trying to bring in more awareness.

9 minutes ago, Shir said:

@Gesundheit 

It's selfish to NOT want to get pregnant at this point in my life & want to avoid abortions?

 

Of course it is. What else could it be?

10 minutes ago, Shir said:

@Gesundheit 

It's selfish to NOT pressure a man to stay with me if he DOES NOT want to save sex for marriage?

That's kinda complex.

13 minutes ago, Shir said:

@Gesundheit 

So sad that knowing what you want in this day and age is considered selfish.

Maybe.

[Shir]

@universe

12 hours ago, universe said:

  On 8/11/2020 at 5:49 AM, Shir said:

I am denying my own sexual needs, wants and desires in saving sex for marriage.

You quoted this, I stand being my words lol. I am perfectly fine denying my sexual needs - in fact, I feel more LIBERATED by this. I don't go into this animal instict and I control who I want to sleep with, where and when. it's amazing to not give in. I highly suggest it. It's literally one of the best things I did in life and I avoided a lot of bad men, heartbreak not to mention other consequinces that comes with sex ect. 

 

12 hours ago, universe said:

It's your choice. I'm not going to comment on it because it seems you are pretty clear on this one.

You seem to be interested to understand why people find it odd. So here is my attempt to explain the men's perspective.

Many man will be very frustrated with your decision. Because sex is so important for them. If they tell you they find it odd you don't want to have sex before marriage, they tell you that because they don't like your decision. And that is their way of telling it to you.

Now it's really difficult for a woman to understand the men's perspective, so let's try a little example. I'm not saying it's a comparible example but maybe it helps you to feel into this.

Let's just assume that woman want emotional intimacy with a man. Now picture a man who only wants to talk about his feelings after marriage. Before that, he will talk about his day, listen and explains things. But he will never say a word about how he feels. (You could add further that he would never ask her about her feelings as well).

See how some woman would react to this guy?

Of course there are also man who don't find sex as important or who want to wait until marriage. ❤️

You're right, it is my choice haha. I wish people wouldn't think it's old-fashioned and respressive though becuase it certainly is 100% my choice. 

I understand that men would be frustrated with my decision, but call it tough love - they can suck it up. I'm not chaining anyone to me. They can go if it's not for them and I'm happy to let them go because I have no interest in forcing someone to abide by me nor my standards if they cannot go by them. The same way I would NEED to respect a man that doesn't want to have sex with me - I can suck it up and either respect that or let him go. I sincerely do not think it's that hard but that's my 2 cents. 

HOWEVER! I really apprecaite your thoughts and your example that you shared was actually VERY enlightening !  I could feel more why a man would be as he is according to your words. 

and on your last sentence - true <3

[Shir]

@Gesundheit You know, for someone that very lightly thinks my reasons are selfish - all you said still sounds pretty empty.

And, how would YOU know marriage is not sacred? You saying marriage isn't sacred is also a BELIEF.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Shir

[Shir]

11 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Just in general I don't see how wanting to wait til marriage is regressing to traditional norms as long as waiting is genuinely what you want and isn't rooted with what other people or society thinks of you which includes notions of purity etc. 

It's also problematic to expect a person to not wait simply because of societal norms when they have made it clear that they do want to wait. 

What I'm trying to say is that waiting isn't regressive. Doing things because of other people 's expectations or society (regardless of if that means having sex or not) is what is actually regressive. 

In other words. Do you. 

@soos_mite_ah THANK YOU !!! I completely agree, it doesn't feel regressing at all to me personally haha  

Thank you girl, completely agree with literally everything you said !

[Gesundheit]

2 minutes ago, Shir said:

@Gesundheit You know, for someone that very lightly thinks my reasons are selfish - all you said still sounds pretty empty.

And, how would YOU know marriage is not sacred? You saying marriage isn't sacred is also a BELIEF.

Dude do whatever you want. I'm not here to tell you what to do or convince you otherwise. You said at the end of your post that you want our thoughts. Well, those were mine, take them or leave them.

[Shir]

3 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Dude do whatever you want. I'm not here to tell you what to do or convince you otherwise. You said at the end of your post that you want our thoughts. Well, those were mine, take them or leave them.

That's fine, I apprecaite your thoughts - I just find it funny that when ppl say I'm going by beliefs ect - it's the same when you go 180 on them and belif THAT to be true - which is clearly ALSO a belif. 

I will certainly do what I want, yes.

And just FYI -> It's rude to call a woman a dude, I'm not a dude lmao. Please refrain from calling grown adult woman dudes. We're not in middle school anymore.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Shir

[Gesundheit]

1 minute ago, Shir said:

That's fine, I apprecaite your thoughts - I just find it funny that when ppl say I'm going by beliefs ect - it's the the same when you go 180 on them and belif THAT to be true - which is clearly ALSO a belif. 

I will certainly do what I want, yes.

It's rude to call a woman a dude, I'm not a dude lmao. Please refrain from calling grown adult woman dudes. We're not in middle school anymore.

Lol you sound pretty tense. Maybe try to release the tension through something you don't want to do 

Jk. Apologies.

[Shir]

Just now, Gesundheit said:

Lol you sound pretty tense. Maybe try to release the tension through something you don't want to do 

Jk. Apologies.

@Gesundheit Lol, I'm not against masturbation - no need to worry about me! But totally get you, yeah. 

And thank you - sorry for coming off intense/tense either way OPPS  

[Gesundheit]

7 minutes ago, Shir said:

@Gesundheit Lol, I'm not against masturbation - no need to worry about me! But totally get you, yeah. 

And thank you - sorry for coming off intense/tense either way OPPS  

No problem. And best of luck in finding your perfect soulmate and raising your perfect children 

(beware of perfectionism though)

Edited August 13, 2020 by Gesundheit

[Consept]

@Shir Can I ask what the point of this thread is, you seem pretty set on your beliefs already, did you just want confirmation and people to agree with you? People will understand why you might feel that way but in general I don't think people will agree. Even though you say it's not religious, it is a very stage blue idea and most here either desire to or have moved past that stage