Discrepancy in systemic racism argument

[trenton]

I find that conservatives are more likely to argue that systemic racism is bogus.  The Chinese are often pointed to as evidence that there is no discrimination against other races within our current system.  I understand that redlining still happens and affects people to this day.  There is plenty of evidence of systemic racism when comparing blacks and whites.  These arguments are often used by people like Shapiro.  He had nearly everything else backwards and I don't trust this point.

Do you have some explanations for this discrepancy?

On one interesting note, the ku Klux Klan member from Leo's blog did not mention segregating the Chinese.  He only mentioned blacks and whites.  This might be one of the differences.

[Forestluv]

There is a dynamic of “proper assimilation”. White supremacists are generally ok if people of color assimilate properly and “know their place”. If LeRoy the black garbage collector is subordinate and friendly to white people as he collects their trash, most white racists won’t have a problem with him because he “knows his place” and is staying in his place. The problem is when LeRoy gets elected to city council are starts talking about racial inequalities within the community. That will upset certain white people. 

[Tanz]

2 minutes ago, trenton said:

I find that conservatives are more likely to argue that systemic racism is bogus.  The Chinese are often pointed to as evidence that there is no discrimination against other races within our current system.  I understand that redlining still happens and affects people to this day.  There is plenty of evidence of systemic racism when comparing blacks and whites.  These arguments are often used by people like Shapiro.  He had nearly everything else backwards and I don't trust this point.

Do you have some explanations for this discrepancy?

On one interesting note, the ku Klux Klan member from Leo's blog did not mention segregating the Chinese.  He only mentioned blacks and whites.  This might be one of the differences.

I dont think it matters if there is systemic racism or not.  The truth of the matter is people still have an extremely limited sense of identity in America and that people are not comfortable enough with unfamiliar things, this includes skin color and ideas.  

Harvard is or has been sued for rejecting Asians from admission. I believe I heard from a lecture that an Asian person has to score 200 points higher on SAT than a white.  A black person, particularly a male, tend to get micro gestures from strangers that make them feel less comfortable in their own skin.  To be black in America you have to have thicker skin than any other race.  Its a worldwide thing but most cultures including African ones prefer lighter skin.    

 

[Rilles]

I dont see why it needs to affect all races, it clearly affects Black people, and thats because of their long history in the US, the Chinese came much later. 

[Consept]

It's a completely different dynamic for African-Americans, 1st or 2nd generation Africans and Jamaicans usually outperform African-Americans whos lineage goes back many generations. So it's not a strictly black and white thing. There are many reasons for this trans-generational trauma, growing up in poverty, systemic racism, no generational wealth, scarcity mindset coping strategies. Also should be noted those that come over now or in recent times, have to be highly ambitious people, essentially the cream of the crop of their country. So comparing a highly ambitious Korean family to a poor African-American family that has been through whatever history has thrown at them is not really a fair comparison 

[Loving Radiance]

I just realized; conscious politics is also including the removal of collective karma.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Loving Radiance

[Consept]

14 minutes ago, Loving Radiance said:

@Consept I just realized; conscious politics is also including the removal of collective karma?

How do you mean? 

[Loving Radiance]

@Consept All good.

[Apparition of Jack]

@trenton A lot of conservatives deny systemic racism because it’s a threat to their worldview, and/or because they have a conscious (or more likely subconscious) interest in pretending it doesn’t exist.

The conservative worldview is generally “if you want anything good in life, you have to put in the effort and earn it yourself.” There’s wisdom in this, but it obviously ignores the fact that for some people there’s going to be HUGE barriers to success no matter how much effort they put in. A black man trying to start a new science start up is going to face a lot of hurdles to achieving this just because he’s black for instance, but this then would force a conservative to admit that it’s not personal effort alone that determines how well off you are and that there’s greater social forces at play which they would then have to accept impact peoples lives, which is something they can’t yet process.

Also, like Forestluv said, a lot of it has to do with stereotypes and social roles and all that. A white conservative might not feel racist because they never have openly hostile thoughts towards black people, but then when black people start to move out of “their role” (poorer, subservient, etc) they feel threatened and confused. If you highlight how black people are discriminated against in terms of housing, a conservative may subconsciously want to deflect this information because they subconsciously believe black people “deserve” to live in poorer and run-down housing.

Not all conservatives are like this just FYI. But it is a trend.

[Leo Gura]

In America -- and in many other parts of the world -- there is an especially strong anti-black racial bias.

For example, I hesitate to call my Mom a racist, but if I married a Chinese girl, she would be okay with it. But if I married a black girl, she would freak out.

Racism is not equal across all the different minority groups. Some groups are treated more "white" and acceptable than others.

Even in China they have flagrant racism against blacks.

So this talk that, "Well, Asians have higher IQs than whites and Asians don't have it so bad in America" -- first, of all, it ignores the long history of anti-Asian racism in America which still exists to this day. But, secondly it naively ignores the fact that Asians were never slaves here and they don't have nearly the same stigma as blacks.

I'm willing to bet that your average KKK member would be relatively okay with allowing Asians into this country, but very much against allowing Africans and Mexicans. You have to look at racism specifically against each minority group. Not just racism in the abstract. Few people are abstractly racist. They usually have a few races they especially don't like. Because racism is learned from one's culture and environmental survival conditions. And cultures are most racist against those races which affect the survival of that culture the most (Africans and Mexicans in America).

[Leo Gura]

 

[jennjenn00]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

Even in China they have flagrant racism against blacks.

 

I’m Hispanic and a few years ago I worked in a real estate company owned by Chinesse people that focus on renting the NUMEROUS  houses and buildings Chinesse people are buying in NYC. They would specifically tell us “no blacks” even though it is illegal not to mention immoral, but they completely refused, and were impressively open about it. 
Interesting enough they mostly wanted to rent their apartments to other Hispanics. Mostly Ecuadorians and Mexicans, because they said they were hard working easy going (submissive) people. 
I took that job because i was recently divorced and a new single mom and the money was very good, the amount of available houses from Chinesse owners we had for rent was impressive. But after I settled into my new life I couldn’t do it anymore and quit. 

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, jennjenn00 said:

Chinesse people are buying in NYC. They would specifically tell us “no blacks”

Of course!

Because most Chinese from mainland China are stage Blue ethnocentric.

Which is why they put Muslims in concentration camps over there.

[Akemrelax]

There is a lot of anti-black racism and colorism in India too.

If you walk up to somebody and call them “black” in India it would be considered an insult. I didn’t even know dark skin could be considered beautiful until I was introduced to American culture when I was 12-13. The idea of beauty is intertwined with whiteness there. I grew up with racist fairness cream commercials, parents telling me not to go out because I would become “black”, racist song lyrics, and taunts from relatives about how dark my skin was getting. Suffice is to say, there are many Indians in America with this type of thinking and Indians are dark skinned so they in a sense hate their own skin. This was very damaging and hard to get over growing up.

[Heart of Space]

40 minutes ago, Akemrelax said:

There is a lot of anti-black racism and colorism in India too.

If you walk up to somebody and call them “black” in India it would be considered an insult. I didn’t even know dark skin could be considered beautiful until I was introduced to American culture when I was 12-13. The idea of beauty is intertwined with whiteness there. I grew up with racist fairness cream commercials, parents telling me not to go out because I would become “black”, racist song lyrics, and taunts from relatives about how dark my skin was getting. Suffice is to say, there are many Indians in America with this type of thinking and Indians are dark skinned so they in a sense hate their own skin. This was very damaging and hard to get over growing up.

Wow, that's truly a shame, I'm sorry you have had to deal with that.  

Learning to undo the damaging conditioning of culture to arbitrarily see certain things as beautiful or ugly is an important part of the spiritual process.  Personally, I know that I perceive people far different than I used to when I was younger.  All the colors of skin are wonderful including yours.   

[remember]

in some sense this skin beauty paradigm of fairness has existed since some centuries - in some sense it even was problematic in europe where it probably was created, although i think i remember it also has roots in india and china and some other countries. originally it was a discrimination of upper class against working class. i guess because it was already existing in some cultures, colonialization was even easier in some parts of the world - like the white god theme in south america. it’s interesting how many facettes skin discrimination can have. i mean on one hand you had the white european lady in her corset locked in against sun exposure and on the other hand you have the people who make that possible through enslavement or half enslavement who are discriminated for getting sun exposed.

fashion has always been quite political.

Edited July 22, 2020 by remember

[Akemrelax]

19 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

Wow, that's truly a shame, I'm sorry you have had to deal with that.  

Learning to undo the damaging conditioning of culture to arbitrarily see certain things as beautiful or ugly is an important part of the spiritual process.  Personally, I know that I perceive people far different than I used to when I was younger.  All the colors of skin are wonderful including yours.   

It’s something every Indian goes through so it’s not that bad I guess, besides my skin’s not super dark and I’m not a girl, it’s harder for girls.

You know, people talk about dystopian future in developed world, but some places are already dystopian in the present. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Akemrelax

[trenton]

@Leo Gura this video has been very helpful.  I did not make the connection that race isn't actually real according to genetics.  I heard this before but I forgot because we treat race like it's real all the time.

These speakers are extremely misleading.  I think it is better to study them on a meta level of we want to understand these worldviews.  If I do hear from a politician, no matter how persuasive it seems, all positions should be treated as perspectives.  It is very dangerous to treat a perspective As true or as reality.

How do you know when you "have it right?". That is you know the liberals are more accurate than conservatives on this issue.  At which point do you conclude one perspective is better than another?

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, trenton said:

How do you know when you "have it right?". That is you know the liberals are more accurate than conservatives on this issue.  At which point do you conclude one perspective is better than another?

This is difficult to explain.

Basically it requires a lot of study and ultimate raising your consciousness, development level, and love.

If you carefully observe how and why conservatives deny systemic racism, you can start to see their self-bias, hypocrisy, double-standards, ahisortisicism, ideology, lack of compassion, and mental gymnastics. Their own minds are tricking them into constructing and defending a self-serving ideology. That's what all these people like Ben Shapiro, Dave Rubin, Charlie Kirk, Steven Crowder, Tucker Carlson, Jordan Peterson, etc. are doing. They are not serious intellectuals. They are guardians and peddlers of ideology. They have no genuine desire for seeking Truth or becoming more conscious. They are zombies parroting ideology.

If you study them closely you will notice it.

Of course liberals and progressives also parrot ideology, but to a lesser degree, and their positions are more open, more conscious, more historical, more accurate, more healthy, more inclusive, more loving, and less ideological overall.