Will Trump be re-elected?

[Preety_India]

@Serotoninluv ?????

 

[Forestluv]

@Preety_India Hmmm, maybe Wyoming should get 3X voting power:

 

[Preety_India]

@Serotoninluv  ahh.

 

That looks amazing. 

 

[Forestluv]

@Preety_India I’ve been there a few times. I love it. 

[Willie]

26 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I disagree. It is inherently unfair to give one person 1 vote and another person 3 votes. A tomato farmer in California gets 1 vote and a tomato farmer in Wyoming gets 3 votes. That is biased and unfair. Imo, each person should get 1 vote. 

https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/preventing-the-tyranny-the-majority

[Forestluv]

12 minutes ago, Willie said:

https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/preventing-the-tyranny-the-majority

Of course republican conservatives at heritage foundation think tank want to preserve the electoral college. I have read the arguments for it. Yet imo, they do not supercede the fundamental principal of democracy that each person gets one vote. It is unfair that some people only get one vote and other people get three votes. That is not a fair democracy imo. 

[Epikur]

12 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Of course republican conservatives at heritage foundation think tank want to preserve the electoral college. I have read the arguments for it. Yet imo, they do not supercede the fundamental principal of democracy that each person gets one vote. It is unfair that some people only get one vote and other people get three votes. That is not a fair democracy imo. 

Democracy needs people who are ready for it. The swiss, even their women could not vote till recently, came closest to it.

Other countries have a mash up system of Democracy, Oligarchy and Monarchy.

 

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, Epikur said:

Democracy needs people who are ready for it. 

I disagree. No authority should decide who is “ready” to vote. In a democracy, everyone gets 1 vote. Even people that I disagree with - they still get 1 vote. Even people that I may think are too stupid to vote wisely - they still get 1 vote. Just like me. No more. No less.

The power of voting should be with the people. All people. 

[SerpaeTetra]

Just guessing obviously, but I think Trump will be coming out with some pretty big anti-discrimination policies, for political reasons of course.  Biden has a pretty big lead right now in the polls and that might be his only option.  I don't think it would lose his followers.

[Willie]

21 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Of course republican conservatives at heritage foundation think tank want to preserve the electoral college. I have read the arguments for it. Yet imo, they do not supercede the fundamental principal of democracy that each person gets one vote. It is unfair that some people only get one vote and other people get three votes. That is not a fair democracy imo. 

If the electoral college is a problem, is the House of Representatives also a problem then?

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, Willie said:

If the electoral college is a problem, is the House of Representatives also a problem then?

The House of Representatives does not use the electoral college. For the House seats, everyone in the district gets 1 vote. That part is fair. The problem with House elections is gerrymandering of districts.

[Epikur]

7 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I disagree. No authority should decide who is “ready” to vote. In a democracy, everyone gets 1 vote. Even people that I disagree with - they still get 1 vote. Even people that I may think are too stupid to vote wisely - they still get 1 vote. Just like me. No more. No less.

The power of voting should be with the people. All people. 

So even if they vote in a guy who probably would become a dictator like more or less in the case of Hitler? Would you still be in favor of it?

[ivory]

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

So even if that joke gets re-elected, the stormy weather will last only for 4 more years, no more after that. 

But think about what the rest of the world will think of the US. The US is the laughing stock right now and I'm not sure they understand how unpopular Trump is with the American people. It's going to take us a long time to undo the damage he has done and gain at least a little respect on the political stage. I sincerely hope that the American people show up at the polls this time. That is our only hope of beating Trump.

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, Epikur said:

So even if they vote in a guy who probably would become a dictator like more or less in the case of Hitler? Would you still be in favor of it?

If I lived in a society with a low enough conscious level to have a dictator, I would rather have that society be a democracy than a plutocracy, fascist or autocracy.

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

So even if that joke gets re-elected, the stormy weather will last only for 4 more years, no more after that. 

I would no longer be certain of that. . . 

As well, the only thing holding Trump back from his darkest desires is the election. If he gets re-elected, he will have to guardrails of accountability. He has taken of the Justice Department, protected himself from indictment and has created a trump-friendly Supreme Court. If he gets re-elected, act 2 will be much worse. 

[Willie]

11 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

The House of Representatives does not use the electoral college. For the House seats, everyone in the district gets 1 vote. That part is fair. The problem with House elections is gerrymandering of districts.

Ok, different source this time with the same basic message:

https://edsitement.neh.gov/curricula/alexis-de-tocqueville-tyranny-majority

Also, if everything was just a popularity contest, there would’ve been a Hitler Did Nothing Wrong flavor of soda and a Boaty McBoatface out at sea.

I also agree that gerrymandering needs to stop.

[Forestluv]

@Willie I’ve read those arguments. I think they had more relevance when the electoral college was created. America was unstable then and they need to hold it together. Today I don’t think those arguments over-ride the basic feature of democracy that each person gets one vote. 

It’s fine if you disagree with me. 

[Preety_India]

 

I'm laughing so hard right now. This is making me so happy that Trump was taken to a bunker. 

he would say "we have the best bunkers in the world. They are huge." 

 

 

 

[Parththakkar12]

5 hours ago, Dutch guy said:

Yes I am very privileged. So privileged on a lot of forums if I say positive things about Trump I get removed or loads of aggressiveness. O man I am so privileged that I can speak about my preference and still be alive. I am also privileged I am a man, because when the shit hits the fan I will be the first one in line to be used as cannonfodder. And I am so privileged to be white that when a cop at the other side of the world kills a black guy I get accused for being of a discriminating sort and riots break out in the whole of the west. If a white guy gets killed nothing happens. When I meet a black person I have to be extra careful , because if I am honest and what I say can be seen negative I get risked being socially isolated. If I say I want to keep my culture and don't like infinite immigrants I get called a semi-racist. Just for liking my culture. On the other side the black culture gets celibrated on black friday also here. For them that is ok. O I am so privileged. So privileged. O lucky me.

This is the result of the shadows of Green. This is what happens when Green people get hyper-identified with their progressivism, such that they turn conservatives into the enemy.

When you have a group of people who get hyper-identified with their ideology, they will defend it collectively. Individually even if they know that it isn't the absolute truth, they will defend it. It will be in the name of 'creating change'.

You will find this to be the case on this forum, or any progressive collective ego for that matter. Now this forum is exclusively designed by Leo to be a debate-intensive chamber where we're trying to brush our ideological worldviews against other ideological worldviews, so that we can learn from it and integrate each other's worldviews. This is what Leo specializes in. However, collectively in the forum, we can fall into the trap of defending that 'integrated ideology' from the 'more unconscious ideologies'. This leads to people making assumptions about the other side based on their ideological position, which is fundamentally intellectually dishonest. You will be collectively ostracized, scapegoated and targeted by the collective. This is the opposite of what we want to see happening if we are a forum of conscious people.

Hyper-identification with your ideology does not work for creating real change. What we need to do is we need to move to Yellow, where we are integrating the conservative perspective and being accommodating towards them. This is how real change gets created. The way to do it is not to push for what you or your group want at all costs, damn the consequences to the other groups. If that is what's happening, or if that is what is getting reflected to you, maybe you need to re-examine the change you're wanting to bring. The way to do it would be to dis-identify with your perspective, no matter how integrative, and focus on understanding and integrating the other perspective. This will make your desires for change more integrative, sophisticated, nuanced. You will see more and more people wanting to be on board with your change when that happens.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[LaucherJunge]

Let's hope that he wins.