annonnimm32

The Homosexual talk about society and rights

28 posts in this topic

Leo please , as administrator here you must trust that there is no hidden agenda here, its just a talk from someone who does not hate, judge ... In fact, allow me to offer a context of this discussion . 

I have 3 questions : So far, are you pleased with the rights homosexual people got  ( getting legally married with children )

What more rights would you want ?

Do you think its wise to ask for more rights after the pandemic is handled? 

I want answers from those who are or know homosexual people,  but i dont want answers for legal militants for lgbtq rights 

Bonus question : How do you feel treated by society, as homosexuals ?

Before this killer sneeze began, my country was just about to offer privilege rights and laws that punish bullying and judgment twards homosexual people.  That being said, no one taught me at school that homosexuality is bad or heterosexuality is normal. Since you live in a more liberal world embracing homosexuality as second nature and celebrating it, what is your take on this since you have those rights?  Is it better, you dont care, how is having those rights affect you in  any way? 

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3 minutes ago, annonnimm32 said:

Do you think its wise to ask for more rights after the pandemic is handled?

Gay people should have their own rights, of course, but that doesn't mean we should mandate legislation in favor of gay marriage. The definition of marriage is clearly a bond between a man and a woman. Otherwise is not marriage.


Me on the road less traveled.

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Gay people should have their own rights, of course, but that doesn't mean we should mandate legislation in favor of gay marriage...

Aha, so what rights would you deem acceptable without mandate legislation?

The Don you traveled enough Italy and wherever, you must have noticed our country not yet has a legislation on this topic.  I am trying to gather intel if this is a good thing, why?  A bad thing why or more the same and wont change a thing and why? 

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@The Don  why is marriage only between man & woman? Surely it's a human creation so it can be whatever we want it to be? 


 Snowdrops and daffodils, butterflies and bees. Sailboats and fishermen, things of the sea. Wishing-wells, wedding bells, early morning dew, all kinds of everything remind me of You. (Derry Lindsay and Jackie Smith).

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The idea of marriage is a construct, it hasnt always been there and many cultures currently and in the past have had different forms of marriage. 

Contemplate your questions but truly imagine you were gay, as in you feel exactly the same way towards guys as you do currently toward girls, see what answers you come up with 

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theres one thing i do agree: you may not force christians to corrupt their religion in favor of a political gay rights agenda 

 

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@Verdesbird  Me too, freedom of religion is vital, Christians aren't forced into any sort of marriage if they don't want to (wait - nobody else is either). But IMO religion is a private matter, so why not allow consenting adults the choice to get married or not, according to our own values, rather than the government deciding for us?  That way conservatives can be conservative and liberals can be liberal. 


 Snowdrops and daffodils, butterflies and bees. Sailboats and fishermen, things of the sea. Wishing-wells, wedding bells, early morning dew, all kinds of everything remind me of You. (Derry Lindsay and Jackie Smith).

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13 hours ago, The Don said:

The definition of marriage is clearly a bond between a man and a woman.

Marriage

noun

noun: marriage; plural noun: marriages

1. the legally or formally recognized union of two people as partners in a personal relationship (historically and in some jurisdictions specifically a union between a man and a woman).
 

2 hours ago, silene said:

Me too, freedom of religion is vital, Christians aren't forced into any sort of marriage if they don't want to (wait - nobody else is either). But IMO religion is a private matter, so why not allow consenting adults the choice to get married or not, according to our own values, rather than the government deciding for us?  That way conservatives can be conservative and liberals can be liberal. 

Government ain't forcing anyone to get married. Gay marriage policy only increases the possibilities for certain types of people to get married.

That way the liberals can be liberals and the conservatives can go sulk in a corner.


Always Be Hardcore

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13 hours ago, The Don said:

Gay people should have their own rights, of course, but that doesn't mean we should mandate legislation in favor of gay marriage. The definition of marriage is clearly a bond between a man and a woman. Otherwise is not marriage.

I'm pretty sure most modern dictionaries don't define it as a bond between a man and a woman.  Legislation should be in favor of gay marriage.  Think of how many gay married couples adopt kids...often getting a child out of a bad situation, and keeping down the human population.  

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People, gay marriage alone is not in question here, noir their adopting children.  Taking it one at the time we get chaos ,ending up casting stones on a rampage . Again, before the killer sneeze happened, this virus, my country Romania, was just a few clicks away for voting friendly lgbt laws which may or may not restrict non lgbt people for objecting, like lgbt history in kinder gardens, lgbt sex education . As a person who was not educated that i like girl mean normal, i like girls because girls like me to and never once liked liked boys.  That doesnt make me a better person noir a bad person.  I am not going to teach my kid to like boys or girls and if my son brings his boyfriend home to me for approval i will indicate my son that that decision of having a boyfriend must be made responsible.  If my son gets sick because he was pleasing himself with another boy  ,thats his responsibility for his action and his choice

Still, educating little children in kinder garden and school,  that this is right, the child bare no responsibility for their action to test what they where teched . I would compromise to agree with lgbt and sex education in the last year of highschool because then they can judge for themselves with an open mind. 

So, again,  those who answered, do you think lgbt people are being treated fair in the world?  Do they have more rights than non lgbt people, what more or less right do they need, when does a country ( what it needs to do ) feel suited to grant lgbt laws in a manner that no one feels more or less privileged?  Do we need lgbt laws in general?  Why?  Why not?  This is the debate 

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36 minutes ago, annonnimm32 said:

So, again,  those who answered, do you think lgbt people are being treated fair in the world?  Do they have more rights than non lgbt people, what more or less right do they need, when does a country ( what it needs to do ) feel suited to grant lgbt laws in a manner that no one feels more or less privileged?  Do we need lgbt laws in general?  Why?  Why not?  This is the debate 

You are not able to imagine from the perspective/experience of a gay person. If you could, you wouldn’t be asking these questions. Rather than having an intellectual debate, why not learn what the actuality is like?

When I was in my 20s, I become good friends with a couple of gay people. Not just on a surface level. We routinely spent hours talking deeply about our lives. Our experiences, fears, vulnerabilities, loves etc. . . I also had the opportunity to play a young gay man in a movie. I really had to learn and imagine what being gay is like to play this character in the movie. . . And I think I was the only straight person on the movie set. I got to know them quite well. What their lives are like. So much was revealed to me about what it’s like. . . There were a few homophobic people in the city that treated me poorly because they assumed I was homosexual since I was doing this movie. When I advocated for my gay friends, the maltreatment intensified. I got a taste of what the judgement, discrimination and harassment is like. Ime, it’s not something someone can learn by debating on an Internet forum. If you really want to deepen and expand you understanding and love, I would recommend spending time with LGTQ people and having deep conversations. Get to know them as friends. Spend time in public with your LGBTQ friends. Observe and notice how they are treated. Notice how you are treated just by being with them. Notice how it makes you feel. . . 

If one doesn’t know/imagine what something is like, they will not be able to have a mature, holistic discussion. They would be restricted to their own self-biased view.

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20 hours ago, Verdesbird said:

theres one thing i do agree: you may not force christians to corrupt their religion in favor of a political gay rights agenda 

By your logic, Christians should be allowed to own slaves, murder people for adultery and stone anyone that collects sticks on the Sabbath day. . . We wouldn’t want to corrupt the religion. . . 🙄 

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A little thought experiment as well, imagine this was 50-60 years ago and someone wanted to have this same debate about black people. As in literally your post but replaced with black -

31 minutes ago, annonnimm32 said:

I am not going to teach my kid to like black girls and if my son brings his black girlfriend home to me for approval i will indicate my son that that decision of having a black girlfriend must be made responsible.  If my son gets sick because he was pleasing himself with a black girl  ,thats his responsibility for his action and his choice

Still, educating little children in kinder garden and school,  that this is right, the child bare no responsibility for their action to test what they where teched . I would compromise to agree with interracial relationships and sex education in the last year of highschool because then they can judge for themselves with an open mind. 

So, again,  those who answered, do you think black people are being treated fair in the world?  Do they have more rights than non black people, what more or less right do they need, when does a country ( what it needs to do ) feel suited to grant black person laws in a manner that no one feels more or less privileged?  Do we need black civil rights laws in general?  Why?  Why not?  This is the debate 

How does this sound to you?

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Serotoninluv my country have no lgbt people.  Most straight girls try to militate this but its understandable them wanting a male figure to go shopping for boots together.  Most boys are socially awkward say year 2 of highschool, year one being not wanting to be bullied.  Still if your suggestion could be applied, first off, that would mean not having the intellectual talk at all ,which is rude since i started the topic and you answered.  Since you answered you agreed to have the talk ( with the reason to cancel the talk but by answering, you agreed to have the talk)  so talk 

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35 minutes ago, annonnimm32 said:

Serotoninluv my country have no lgbt people.  

There are LGBTQ people in your country. And they are beautiful people. They want to live a life to express their true self and love who they love - just like you do.  

016AD8A2-0198-44A1-89DB-C6BB78B1FD3E.jpeg

The idea “There are no LGBTQ people in our country” is societal propaganda and programming. It is also of form of marginalization. 

Imagination can be a door to understanding. . . Imagine not being able to express your true self. Imagine you had to pretend like you were something you were not. If you expressed your true self, you would be rejected by your family and public. You would be stigmatized and ostracized. You would be threatened and beaten. . . Imagine the pain and suffering of hiding your true self from others. The mental anguish gets so bad that you struggle with suicidal thoughts and desires. . . . This is actuality: LGBTQ people have much higher rates of severe psychological issues and suicide due to societal stigmatization and ostracization.

There are LGBTQ people in your country that would come out if safe. Now imagine being an advocate for LGBTQ. Imagine that you start a website as a safe place for LGBTQ people in your country. You ask to meet any LGBTQ people, so you may better support and love them. You organize social events in which LGBTQ people can come together and be safe to express themselves. You take initiatives to educate the public about LGBTQ in your community. . . How would this go over? How would you feel (not think) about doing this?

 

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Serotoninluv, if they want to have rights, they would come out and forward their request.  Many countries have done so because they united to speak up and in years they got ,so keeping quiet means they do not want to assume responsibility for speaking out on their own, no help from outsiders untill they prove they want this. 

Teenagers in general have suicide thoughts because they are bordering adulthood, so evan if its a grown young  body the mind tries to hold on and act like a child so there are no consequences for any action like suicide

Friendly lgbt bars have opened but they are empty, but since the bars are there ,they have the means and location to express themselves without fear

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19 minutes ago, annonnimm32 said:

Serotoninluv, if they want to have rights, they would come out and forward their request.  Many countries have done so because they united to speak up and in years they got ,so keeping quiet means they do not want to assume responsibility for speaking out on their own, no help from outsiders untill they prove they want this. 

You don’t understand what its like being an LGBTQ person. You just said that you have no LGBTQ friends and don’t think there are any LGBTQ people in your country (which there are). 

Again, you will need to imagine this. . . Imagine being a gay man. Imagine telling this to your parents right now. Imagine announcing on the internet you are gay. Imagine walking outside with your boyfriend holding hands. Imagine going to school and social gatherings with your boyfriend. . . If you cannot imagine how difficult this would be, you will not be able to understand the underlying dynamics. . . In most of the world, coming out takes immense courage and can have severe consequences like being banished from ones family, being stigmatized, ostracized, ridiculed, threatened and beaten. 

As well, there are many courageous LGBTQ people asking for equal rights (not special rights, not privileged rights - equal rights). For example, in your country there is ACCEPT

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accept_(organization)

19 minutes ago, annonnimm32 said:

Teenagers in general have suicide thoughts because they are bordering adulthood,

Yes, teenagers and young adults have higher suicidal tendencies than adults. Yet I said LGBTQ people. LGBTQ teenagers have much higher rates of psychological problems, suicidal thoughts and suicide attempts than non-LGBTQ teenagers due to societal stigmatization and ostracization. 

19 minutes ago, annonnimm32 said:

Friendly lgbt bars have opened but they are empty, but since the bars are there ,they have the means and location to express themselves without fear

To me, you don’t understand and cannot imagine what it would be like to be a LGBTQ person. 

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@Serotoninluv I've heard some conservatives say that they have problems with gay marriage. Like they don't have a problem with gay sex, but they have a problem with gay marriage. This is because if they decide to adopt a kid, that kid will grow up with two fathers, instead of a father and a mother. Now I understand that the mother being the primary caregiver is a patriarchially imposed norm, so it's not so clear.

What do you think about this?

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Consept, first off i had a huge laugh and im still laughing. You cant compare gay people with black people.  Black people ,biologically exist, we can see them, smell them, marry them, screw them.  Gay people do not biologically exist!  They just manifest in a limited particular way that has many causes for their manifestation.  Gay people are a concept unless they are identified as biologically.  If a gay man and a straight man both donate blood with both the DNA blood type you cant tell the difference that one blood sample comes from a gay men

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16 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

@Serotoninluv I've heard some conservatives say that they have problems with gay marriage. Like they don't have a problem with gay sex, but they have a problem with gay marriage. This is because if they decide to adopt a kid, that kid will grow up with two fathers, instead of a father and a mother. Now I understand that the mother being the primary caregiver is a patriarchially imposed norm, so it's not so clear.

What do you think about this?

I think that is a legitimate question. I had the same question in the early 1990s when there were a lot of political measures to prevent same-sex marriage in my country. One of theIr main arguments was that a same-sex home environment is unhealthy for a child. 

From what I have observed and social studies, there is no “harm” associated to a child being raised by two men or two women. One could argue what counts as “harm”, yet in terms of being well-adjusted to life, there doesn’t seem to be a significant difference in terms of personal problems. Of course there are differences between same sex and opposite sex upbringings, yet I would say there are pros and cons to both. I would put it in the same category as a child being raised by two parents that are scientists or two parents that are artists. These environments are different and will shape the child differently, yet I wouldn’t say one is better than the another. 

I’m much more concerned about clearly unhealthy environments for children. For example, children growing up in poverty, high crime, abuse, drug/alcohol addicted parents etc. 

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