The Homosexual talk about society and rights

[Consept]

@annonnimm32

There's no biological basis for race either- https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/race-genetics-science-africa/

 

[Forestluv]

20 minutes ago, annonnimm32 said:

Gay people do not biologically exist!  They just manifest in a limited particular way that has many causes for their manifestation.  Gay people are a concept unless they are identified as biologically.  If a gay man and a straight man both donate blood with both the DNA blood type you cant tell the difference that one blood sample comes from a gay men

By your logic, heterosexual people don’t biologically exist either. . . . 

[Harikrishnan]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

I think that is a legitimate question. I had the same question in the early 1990s when there were a lot of political measures to prevent same-sex marriage in my country. One of theIr main arguments was that a same-sex home environment is unhealthy for a child. 

From what I have observed and social studies, there is no “harm” associated to a child being raised by two men or two women. One could argue what counts as “harm”, yet in terms of being well-adjusted to life, there doesn’t seem to be a significant difference in terms of personal problems. Of course there are differences between same sex and opposite sex upbringings, yet I would say there are pros and cons to both. I would put it in the same category as a child being raised by two parents that are scientists or two parents that are artists. These environments are different and will shape the child differently, yet I wouldn’t say one is better than the another. 

I’m much more concerned about clearly unhealthy environments for children. For example, children growing up in poverty, high crime, abuse, drug/alcohol addicted parents etc. 

Really liked all your replies here. 

I would like to know have you seen or know any kids growing up to adulthood in such a family with same sex parents. (Same sex marriage is new in our country so i cant know about kids growing up in such a family, india being a blue society i think it will be much harder for kids in such family). Since your place is much more up in the spiral, i would like to know what you think are the problems faced by kids(if there is any) coming from such family compared to kids raised by opposite sex parents

Edited May 14, 2020 by Harikrishnan

[Forestluv]

@Harikrishnan There was a lot of concern in the U.S. during the 1990s and into 2000’s about potential negative impacts of rearing children in a same-sex household. And not just anti-LGBTQ people. There were people that were ok with others being homosexual, yet didn’t know if a child raised in a same-sex household would have any negative impacts. There have been many conservative groups that have tried to get social science studies to show such harmful impacts and nothing has come out of it. 

A few of my students were raised in same-sex households and are fine. Students routinely come to me with their problems. These are most often anxiety disorders and also learning blocks. Often, personal problems come out such as past trauma, drug or alcohol addictions, depression and various mental instabilities. I’ve also worked with at-risk teens in my community. However, I am not professionally trained as a social psychologist, social researcher or family counselor - these are not my areas of expertise.

In terms of Their childhood upbringing, I would say the most common challenge is young adults feeling like they can’t express themselves. Quite often due to values that were imposed upon them about what it means to be a man, to be a woman, to be successful or to be of value. This was imposed upon them by their parents and society. I routinely meet students that are going into careers due to pressure from their parents. Their heart is in art, music, working with children - yet parental pressure says you must be a doctor, lawyer, businessman. Or students questioning their sexuality/gender and scared about coming out and exploring. In particular, backlash from their parents and peers. . . . As well, the conditioning of what “normal” is and not being “good enough”. So many young adults have anxiety and neuroses that stem from feeling they are “abnormal”, “there is something wrong with me”, or “not _____ enough”. Not smart enough, not good looking enough, not popular enough. . .there are hundreds of variations of not being good enough. As well, I commonly see neuroses due to various traumas and abuse from childhood.

If I was to make a list of ways we can increase the health of children and young adults, same-sex or opposite-sex households wouldn’t even make my top 50. It would be somewhere around whether it’s better to have a family dog or cat as a pet. From my view, there are so many more important things such as: Does the family have resources to meet basic needs? Do the parents spend quality time with the child? Do they parents provide a safe space for the child to develop and explore their interests? (Or are the parents constantly judging and hyper-criticizing the child?). Is there excessive anger, screaming, domestic violence, drug and alcohol use in the family. Are parents spending quality time with the child and encouraging them to grow? Are the parents helping the child with their homework? I could go on and on. . . None of these are inherent to the sexual orientation of the parents. There can be an unhealthy same-sex household or an unhealthy opposite-sex household. 

At a Blue level, there will be a lot of resistance regarding the morality of same-sex partners and how this immorality can affect the children. As well, Blue likes a traditional patriarchal family structure and there will be concerns about whether same-sex households will disrupt traditional family structure and the fabric of society. For example, how can a boy grow up to be a “real man” with two mothers and no father?. . . At an orange level, it becomes more about individual freedoms and science. A blue society would be more about what is right in the eyes of god or tradition. An orange society would be more concerned about individuals pursuing what they find rewarding as well as social science. For example, an orange society would perform a lot of social science studies of children reared in opposite-sex vs. same-sex households to see if there are any significant wellness differences. 

[annonnimm32]

Consept, you dont need a blood sample to determine that  afro american people  are real! Most of them actually have dark brown skin . However, you cannot biologically prove that homosexual people are real.

[Consept]

@annonnimm32

How do you biologically prove heterosexual people are real? 

What I'm saying is race doesn't biologically exist, we invented it. Skin colour is as arbitrary as eye colour or muscular build or ear shape. There maybe common traits amongst people who migrated together to different parts of the world but that doesn't mean they are a different race. 

Despite the fact that race doesn't exist (not that differing attributes of people aren't real) people still discriminate against black people. So the same way you said being gay is a concept, being any particular 'race' outside of one human race is also a concept. Also there are studies that show gay peoples brains are different to straight https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex/ 

[silene]

In my experience of race, nowadays it is always self-selected with surveys and the like, you choose which 'race' you belong to from a list of tick boxes. The attempt to find biological evidence of race was a feature of the eugenics movement of the 20th century which was suspect to begin with and degenerated completely with the Nazis. In theory, now you can belong to whichever racial group you choose, or none (as I do). I have made a decision recently to refrain from assuming anyone else's racial identity without the other person stating it for themselves. 

Having gone on that tangent, I'll try and return to the topic. 

@annonnimm32 "So, again,  those who answered, do you think lgbt people are being treated fair in the world?  Do they have more rights than non lgbt people, what more or less right do they need, when does a country ( what it needs to do ) feel suited to grant lgbt laws in a manner that no one feels more or less privileged?  Do we need lgbt laws in general?  Why?  Why not?  This is the debate"

I don't have a broad enough knowledge of this issue to give a good global answer, but I do think LGBTQ+ (is that the current acronym?) rights vary so much around the world the simple answer is probably NO, they aren't treated fairly on average, there's large parts of the world where they are discriminated and persecuted, treated as second class citizens compared to straights and celibates. In my own country, UK, there have been some big improvements legally but not all sections of the community have kept pace with this; we have plenty of stage blue citizens with private attitudes supporting discrimination. Culture changes slowly, law is necessary as a last resort but it's a blunt instrument. There needs to be a range of other factors such as changes in education, personal contact between people (to experience that the demonised group are in fact normal people), positive and truthful representation in the media etc. Ideally we should be moving towards a place where the persecuted group becomes less 'other' and more 'part of us' ie regular members of the community with the same rights and responsibilities as anyone else. But this takes time, not everyone is capable of this level of progress in consciousness. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by silene

[annonnimm32]

silene ,your answer is wise ,congratulations on an objective opinion in a complicated subject