Is There Free Will? (Most beautiful answer I’ve ever seen!)

[LfcCharlie4]

Was reading an interview from Rupert Spira from 2008 and the interviewer asked about free will, his response was as perfect as I have ever seen. 
 

Q. Is there free will?

Consciousness is freedom itself. The separate entity is non-existent. Therefore there is no entity present who could either have or not have free will.

Experience is too intimate and immediate to admit of one who may stand back and orchestrate it like a conductor, willing, choosing, deciding, etc. There is no time present for such a one to exist in.

The idea of free will is an inevitable side effect of the belief in a separate entity. If we believe there is a separate entity, we will by definition, whether we know it or not, believe there is free will. If, as this apparent entity, we then believe there is no free will, then that is simply a belief that we superimpose onto our much deeper conviction that we are a separate doer, chooser, decider etc.

Once the separate entity is seen clearly to be non-existent, the idea of free will dissolves. 

All that is left is the freedom of Consciousness.

 

 

I don’t think anymore needs to be said, I saw a Q on here the other day regarding this and I think Francis summed it up well, but on this occasion the student really did become the master! 

 

[Roy]

That's a really good quote @LfcCharlie4 nice find! That's an amazing summation if I've ever seen one.

It's kind of interesting seeing that conclusion from another perspective. I remember reading Sam Harris' book on Free Will a number of years ago and his definition is remarkably similar. Obviously he's coming from a more scientific paradigm but he came to the same conclusion almost through meditation, introspection and thought. Though he talks a lot about the "no-self" concept and advocates for people to discover that truth, I still feel like he hasn't got past the whole physically of the body/brain yet.

Free will is simply an illusion, but a convincing at that!

Even someone just willing to honestly take a simple thought experiment like this will notice it's comically evident free will doesn't exist;

Whoever is reading this right now I want you to immediately say OUT LOUD the name of the first movie that you think of, no deliberation just say it out loud.

Notice that whatever content came up was completely random? Perhaps if you do some tracing from past experiences or your environment you could come up with a reason for why you said it, but if you're honest you'll admit you still had zero anticipation of what movie it would be, it simply happened.

Now also notice that if you hesitated and thought of a small list of movies, and then felt like you "chose" one of the movies to pass this experiment, that choosing also just happened.

It's like this for all thoughts that arrive in your mind, choices that you make, and even physical actions you do. It is all just constant and relentless happening. No matter how much you try to feel "prior" to anything that is happening, you'll never arrive faster than the happening. Even the deliberating is part of the happening hahah!

Once you break through and become aware of this it's very chilling. There are even scientific experiments that prove the brain has activity that determines the experience before the person is even consciously aware of it, if you're looking for that kind of explanation.

Free will is just a comfortable illusion.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Roy

[ivankiss]

Delicious 

[SoonHei]

@Roy love it

Or rather

My loving has happened

[Javfly33]

Good said.

There´s no backseat, or front seat, there is only a seat. 

[Heaven]

Thanks for sharing..it’s still doesn’t completely clicks in my mind. F*** it!?

@Roy I do see clearly how my thoughts are the creation of my environment.

I did ur experiment I thought about Disney and then Micky Mouse.

I was wondering if to invest on Disney in the last month?.

If anyone has good resources for this subject I would highly appreciate that.

This understanding definitely can make my life more chilling and relaxing.

 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Roy It’s all just a spontaneous joy in each wonderful passing moment! 
 

life is a beautiful celebration, and we are so lucky to have found a community like this, and teachings like this that help us understand this!

Think about how much of the world is yet to to see the truth of their own being, we really are lucky! 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Heaven As I say, If you still see yourself to be a separate entity, then the belief in free will is very normal  

When you see yourself as pure awareness/ The Absolute/ The Self, the issue is resolved as all that exists is THIS, and THIS has absolute freedom, in every moment  

[LfcCharlie4]

Just thought of a great example with my mum. 
 

She is very very anxious and In panic mode due to Covid-19 but she of course isn’t choosing Anxiety, it’s a result of a number of things such as too much mainstream news, fear of death, Poor health etc, creating a state of fear. 
 

So, it is an accumulation of a number of things that causes these things. 
 

In my case, I am very calm and at peace about the situation as I focus heavily on my health, relatively speaking have prepared with supplements and a routine in case, I also don’t completely believe the official narrative, and know death is simply an illusion, so therefore, feelings of peace and calm manifest instead. 
 

This can be applied to any situation, and shows how things are much more complex than a simple choice  

But, at the end of day, all that matters is the absolute freedom awakening brings, that’s where the desire for free will comes from, to experience the absolute beauty and freedom of the absolute. 
 

have a great day! 

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

True! Oneness implies that there is only ONE will. You don't HAVE a free will, you ARE free will. Or rather an expression of free will. The will we perceive is just an interplay between the different manifestations of absolute free will. There could be something I'm missing though, as I am not too familiar with non-duality.

31 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

But, at the end of day, all that matters is the absolute freedom awakening brings, that’s where the desire for free will comes from, to experience the absolute beauty and freedom of the absolute. 

Beautiful!

[mandyjw]

Awesome quote. I recently discovered Roger Castillo, his teachings are quite focused on seeing nondoership. Highly recommended. 

[Paul92]

Interesting quote. The free will debate is something that terrifies me. Logically, I'd say that free will is an illusion. But I can't be certain. How do I know? However, I do think we are quite obvious a product of our brains, that basically create the illusion of us being in control. If that is true, I find it very upsetting.

[zeroISinfinity]

3 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@Roy It’s all just a spontaneous joy in each wonderful passing moment! 
 

life is a beautiful celebration, and we are so lucky to have found a community like this, and teachings like this that help us understand this!

Think about how much of the world is yet to to see the truth of their own being, we really are lucky! 

All well and fine until ? or ? starts chasing your ass. ☺️

(stop projecting your own fear of teddy bears) 

I will burst from laughter there are just so many jokes possible. 

Imagine Rupert Spira and his disciples on road trip and they end up meeting some cannibalistic tribe. Trying to teach 'em. 

OMG that scene of mass hysteria bet they will all drop those flowers so quickly. 

RS:Conciousness blah blah blah, free will blah blah blah.... 

Tribe member: please man be short we are hungry. 

RS:ok I am done. 

Entire Tribe:Good, finally. 

Disciples: spontanious joy in each passing moment. 

OMG. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[LfcCharlie4]

@Paul92  Yeah, don't worry about the belief behind it at all, that will just create a never ending war in your own head, trust me I tried it with many of the concepts lol. 

Investigate for yourself the truth of your own being! 

@zeroISinfinity  You always make me laugh man, I would love to see what goes on inside your head lol. 

What happens if Spira and Co awaken these people, will they stop being cannibals and become vegetarians like him?

I want to know what happens in chapter 2!

[zeroISinfinity]

@LfcCharlie4 There ain't no actual awakening with teachings. 

Also there is no awakening with actually facing death. What people consider death to be leads to actual awakening. Sorry for bursting bubbles. 

You experience your own death for awakening that's how it is. No amount of satsangs can replace that. Becoming vegan or whatever. 

 

[Artaemis]

@zeroISinfinity I wonder if you realize how condescending you sound

[zeroISinfinity]

@Artaemis Sorry. Just... Maybe I don't know but I do speak Truth. 

Want enlightenment you will face actual death. It will really be that way. I do not lie about that. Why would I? 

Am I full of shit, yes I am. Very concious of it. Doesn't prevent me to have some fun. 

[LfcCharlie4]

@zeroISinfinity Of course, the secret is to die before you die. 
 

I never once said Vegan = Awakening, Just in my experience, I personally don’t want another living being to die for me, but it’s not like you have to be Vegan to be awake. 
 

Not had your morning coffee this morning? Usually, you’re not this cranky! 

[zeroISinfinity]

@LfcCharlie4 I am not cranky I am just foolin' around. Nothing new I guess.

Yeah coffee sucked balls drinking this turkish black one need to change it but got addicted. 

In all honesty confused af what to do, with enlightenment devil completelly dies and you lived for it even this spiritual games are for it. 

Don't want to continue this but I have to, real mess. Ignorance is a bliss sometimes. 

If I could choose again would delay enlightenment til age of 75 then I would be ok have a good laugh and will die in peace. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[LfcCharlie4]

@zeroISinfinity  

Here's what to do: 

Go live your life. 

Do what you love as much as possible. 

Have fun. 

Enjoy life. 

Spread love and live from love. 

If I could choose I would awaken as early as possible because then life just becomes an effortless joy like it has been this year for me, even through my first break up and all the crying and sadness, there has still been the absolute sense of peace and happiness that never leaves. 

Awakening isn't the end of life. 

It's the beginning of a new, love filled, incredible adventure that is about truly living. 

Maybe @Nahm can help out here, he has a way with words that I don't possess! 

But in a nutshell- Go enjoy life, whatever that means for you!