Non-duality will never be understood from the subject/object perspective

[Prevailer]

54 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

I've been in that same place you feel your in and see yourself to be in before to and its a interesting place to be and understand that you can only HOPE, but can't be certain one way or another.  And if your interested in looking deeper, (if that could really be said, which is up for debate), was to turn this conclusion on itself.

What I mean is.  It seems you or your mind has come to a certainty that there is no certainty and somehow accepts this certainty without seeing that its doing so.

Did you get that.  Your certain that there is no certainty and only HOPE that someone can have in either this or that....  But this is a certainty accepted.  Imagine dropping even that without a answer or a why or a what it means and being REALLY in the unknown.....

Also while we are on it, can you also see that there is a belief that there is actually an individual happening in your beliefs.  Unquestioningly you think that there is HOPE and someone who can have it or not.  Look into that to, is there even an individual happening to have HOPE.  Now before you conclude that because there feels like theres thinking and experiencer mulling over a question that proves there is, leave that alone and let the question stew for a while..... just let go and see what happens.  Its the perfect cornona-time to do so

I don’t play the certain / uncertainty game.I got bored with it.I leave that insanity game with the 2 off biological computer EGOS who have run the programme fully and its them that say all there is HOPE ...who am I to argue.

[Mu_]

21 minutes ago, Prevailer said:

I don’t play the certain / uncertainty game.I got bored with it.I leave that insanity game with the 2 off biological computer EGOS who have run the programme fully and its them that say all there is HOPE ...who am I to argue.

Happy to hear that. 

[VeganAwake]

54 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

@VeganAwake Hmm what I'm about to say may come across as very arrogant.  What I'm pointing is perhaps is even more crazy then what this video is pointing to.  First of all, This video, like anything from a baby crying and seemingly appear to grow and learn stuff, to a supposed dog taking a shit is beautiful and whole/ly.  Its perfect and exact, as all things are.  There is no divide or anything out of alignment.

With that said, the communicator of the video and the way its told is what I would call still coming from a embodied conclusion that there is real separate things called a world, with people on it, who are in a illusion that don't understand what they really are.  And while a lot of the pointing on concepts and conclusions shared in the video are real so to say, its still communicating a type of falsehood.  I'm not saying this for everyone watching this video, but for you/You.  Again, the video has real value on the level its at so to say to be useful to awaken, but its a partial disservice for you if what you desire is to understand fuller Truth.

Look deeper if your curious, there is something here.....

I understand what you mean illusions within Illusions dreams within dreams.

This is why I talk about nothing mattering ?

Recently been studying into Ajata Sunyata... or the recognition that there's nothing from the start.

Here's a little piece of it:

"Advaita tells us that reality is “not two”. Ajata tells us that it is “not even one". 

Ajata translates as “no creation”. This means to say that nowhere has anything ever come into being. Therefore, the entire universe (or universes) — and everything therein — has no reality. In other words, the ultimate condition is nothing, or nothingness. 

Advaita is to ajata, as milk is to cream. In Advaita, we come to realize that “all that is, is That,” or the Absolute. Ajata is where we subsequently come to realize that there is not even That (or the Absolute).

Technically, from the standpoint of ajata, even nothingness is non-existent" -- Robert Wolfe

I'm really not sure if this is even what you're describing but sounded similar ?

I'm not sure why anything would be a disservice though because there isn't an 'I'

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by VeganAwake

[Mu_]

36 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

I understand what you mean illusions within Illusions dreams within dreams.

This is why I talk about nothing mattering ?

Recently been studying into Ajata Sunyata... or the recognition that there's nothing from the start.

Here's a little piece of it:

"Advaita tells us that reality is “not two”. Ajata tells us that it is “not even one". 

Ajata translates as “no creation”. This means to say that nowhere has anything ever come into being. Therefore, the entire universe (or universes) — and everything therein — has no reality. In other words, the ultimate condition is nothing, or nothingness. 

Advaita is to ajata, as milk is to cream. In Advaita, we come to realize that “all that is, is That,” or the Absolute. Ajata is where we subsequently come to realize that there is not even That (or the Absolute).

Technically, from the standpoint of ajata, even nothingness is non-existent" -- Robert Wolfe

I'm really not sure if this is even what you're describing but sounded similar ?

I'm not sure why anything would be a disservice though because there isn't an 'I'

 

Ya all what you shared here sounds like good matters to keep pondering.  However the nothing mattering can be a very sensitive line to tread because its often said, heard and understood with a slant of nihilisticness in it.  Perhaps its best to more often communicate, Only Love, since Love is what is and its not about it mattering or not, but just being that.....

A word on the Ajata point and I'm not sure I fully grasp what the teacher here is trying to convey (I fully resonate with the Advaita message you quoted), but from the tinny bit I've gathered online, it refers to the yet unborn side of the all that is, is THAT.  From my own experience this would be pointing to the aspect of Ones yet to be unfolding, a bubbling up within an Awakened surrendered or a story of experience yet to be manifest.  While the One is always whole and only itself, layers of its everchangingness and new dimensions of itself are always coming forth, like a creative thought that arise out of nowhere in a supposed mind, that sprouts forth a new song yet heard.  This song arose from nothing with no control.  In the same way, Oneness itself is always unfolding in this same way from its own unknown depths sprouting forth newness that wasn't there before, yet is always itself.. Don't confuse this unfolding as form and not form, since its never this or that, its always itself.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Mu_

[Nahm]

54 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

"Advaita tells us that reality is “not two”. Ajata tells us that it is “not even one". 

If it’s helpful, clarifying....Non-duality / advaita (not-duality), is the pointing of not-two. This pointing never implied “one” to begin with. Ajata “not even one”, is a misunderstanding of advaita. (An implication nonduality / advaita meant “one”.)

Nothing, everything, anything, any thing, any no thing, no thing, self, no self, human self, no human self........and  “illusion”....are the very “two” to which advaita points to as being, not-two. “Nothing matters”, and “it’s this”, are already the implication of, “two”. 

[cetus]

1 hour ago, VeganAwake said:

Ajata translates as “no creation”. This means to say that nowhere has anything ever come into being. Therefore, the entire universe (or universes) — and everything therein — has no reality. In other words, the ultimate condition is nothing, or nothingness. 

The ultimate knowledge has no knowledge. -Nisargadatta

[traveler]

7 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

There is only the appearance of a subject / object.   It is all imaginary.  This reality you are in right now - all form - is imaginary because God's true form is formlessness or the collapse of all separation into One.  Total Oneness is Infinity.  Infinity is groundless.  It is everything and nothing.  Because everything must include nothing and therefore negates itself.  Nothing holds everything within it.  Nothing IS everything.   And it is You!

Case closed. Class dismissed

 

Nice one! 

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, traveler said:

Nice one! 

??

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

If it’s helpful, clarifying....Non-duality / advaita (not-duality), is the pointing of not-two. This pointing never implied “one” to begin with. Ajata “not even one”, is a misunderstanding of advaita. (An implication nonduality / advaita meant “one”.)

Nothing, everything, anything, any thing, any no thing, no thing, self, no self, human self, no human self........and  “illusion”....are the very “two” to which advaita points to as being, not-two. “Nothing matters”, and “it’s this”, are already the implication of, “two”. 

Something that was never there from the beginning, cannot ever create duality... duality isn't even real... it's a word that literally describe something that never took place.

The apparent separate waves on the ocean does not create duality...

15 different sandcastles on the beach we're never separate from the sand or beach, it just appeared so...

A mirage and the desert are not 2 because the Mirage never existed, it was an illusion "the separation never occurred"

Three knots in a rope appear as something other than a rope but when looked at closely it's still just the Rope... there was never something other than the Rope.

You could never say an illusion actually creates Duality because the illusion was never real from the start.

Language is naturally dualistic in nature but besides that, how could....THIS or Nothing Matters imply duality? 

THIS is pointing to there's only what apparently is happening..

Nothing Matters is pointing to there was never a separate individual for anything to actually matter for..

Do you see how everything is tied into the illusory belief of the individual...

You are saying something implies Duality when Duality isn't even real ...it doesn't make any sense.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by VeganAwake

[VeganAwake]

15 minutes ago, traveler said:

Nice one! 

Yeah it's pretty close except for the fact that collapsing implies there was once a separation... "the separation never occurred" ?

I like it overall though ❤

 

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Yeah it's pretty close except for the fact that collapsing implies there was once a separation... "the separation never occurred" ?

I like it overall though ❤

 

Blah blah blah

You are in duality right now.  Its imaginary but you are in it.   You are it actually.  You are God dreaming you are a human in order to experience separation.  The only way separation can be experienced is through illusion or imagination.  So it never occurred and is occurring simultaneously.

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Mu_ said:

Ya all what you shared here sounds like good matters to keep pondering.  However the nothing mattering can be a very sensitive line to tread because its often said, heard and understood with a slant of nihilisticness in it.  Perhaps its best to more often communicate, Only Love, since Love is what is and its not about it mattering or not, but just being that.....

A word on the Ajata point and I'm not sure I fully grasp what the teacher here is trying to convey (I fully resonate with the Advaita message you quoted), but from the tinny bit I've gathered online, it refers to the yet unborn side of the all that is, is THAT.  From my own experience this would be pointing to the aspect of Ones yet to be unfolding, a bubbling up within an Awakened surrendered or a story of experience yet to be manifest.  While the One is always whole and only itself, layers of its everchangingness and new dimensions of itself are always coming forth, like a creative thought that arise out of nowhere in a supposed mind, that sprouts forth a new song yet heard.  This song arose from nothing with no control.  In the same way, Oneness itself is always unfolding in this same way from its own unknown depths sprouting forth newness that wasn't there before, yet is always itself.. Don't confuse this unfolding as form and not form, since its never this or that, its always itself.

Yes there's no agenda here so I may look into it more or not it doesn't matter at all..❤

[Nahm]

22 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Something that was never there from the beginning, cannot ever create duality... duality isn't even real... it's a word that literally describe something that never took place.

The apparent separate waves on the ocean does not create duality...

15 different sandcastles on the beach we're never separate from the sand or beach, it just appeared so...

A mirage and the desert are not 2 because the Mirage never existed, it was an illusion "the separation never occurred"

Three knots in a rope appear as something other than a rope but when looked at closely it's still just the Rope... there was never something other than the Rope.

You could never say an illusion actually creates Duality because the illusion was never real from the start.

Language is naturally dualistic in nature but besides that, how could....THIS or Nothing Matters imply duality? 

THIS is pointing to there's only what apparently is happening..

Nothing Matters is pointing to there was never a separate individual for anything to actually matter for..

Do you see how everything is tied into the illusory belief of the individual...

You are saying something implies Duality when Duality isn't even real ...it doesn't make any sense.

 

 

Why are you saying (typing out) any of this & posting that video ?

[Forestluv]

@VeganAwake I’m not disagreeing with your theoretical constructs. They are quite helpful and profound in a context. It is a view from a rooftop - and there are many other rooftops to climb, explore and embody.

For example, your theoretical construct includes a thing you created that you call “illusion”. I’m not saying your construct is wrong, yet there are other ways of understanding so-called “illusion” that are also quite enlightening. However, to venture here one would need to let go of their rooftop view to explore another rooftop view. 

[SoonHei]

Non-duality will never be understood from the subject/object perspective

 

 

the South Pole can't even be seen from the north pole

 

??‍♀️

 

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, cetus56 said:

The ultimate knowledge has no knowledge. -Nisargadatta

Words of wisdom...?

[cetus]

@VeganAwake From nothing comes something.   Complete and without qualification. Absolute.

[VeganAwake]

43 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

@VeganAwake From nothing comes something.   Complete and without qualification. Absolute.

Nice ?.... I like this one also

"Life is an open secret. Everything is available, nothing is hidden. All that you need is just eyes to see" ~ Osho

[fridjonk]

 

 

When love reaches its peak the lover disappears - Osho 

[VeganAwake]

“The greatest fear in the world is the opinion of others, and the moment you are unafraid of the crowd, you are no longer a sheep, you become a lion. A great roar arises in your heart, the roar of freedom.” -- Osho