Bobby's perspective vs actualized.org

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@Leo Gura So, like a proper devil that I am, I will ask the question: since everything is already Love, why must the ego die (if it does not even exist)?

It mustn't. There are no musts. You are God and you are free to play in the sandbox of your Mind for eternity.

You can go become Hitler and kill 20 million people. God will still love you.

Which is why all these egos (seem to) exist. God allows them because no one is forcing you not be a devil. God doesn't fight devils with force. God simply loves them to death, which means they exist temporarily. Which is why we have Hitlers and Trumps and you

God's Love is so great that God isn't bothered by Hitler. Your love is so small that you hate Hitler. That's because you're a devil. If you realized you were God, you'd love Hitler as much as you love your mother. But this is far to radical for mankind to admit. That's because mankind are devils. But luckily God is perfectly okay with that!

[Lelouch Lamperouge]

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Since there is only ONE thing, and it is LOVE

Leo can you provide your definition of Love? I mean what to do you feel when you experience this metaphysical Love?

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Lelouch Lamperouge said:

Leo can you provide your definition of Love?

Everything you've ever experienced or could possibly experience.

Quote

I mean what to do you feel when you experience this metaphysical Love?

It feels like Infinite Love. Imagine if you loved every object in the universe as much as you love your mother, your children, or your dog. But more! Literally Infinite Love! It is completely unlimited. You Love so much that it grows bigger and bigger and bigger until you realize that it literally has no end whatsoever. By this point your entire self gets annihilated in this love and you literally die as a human self. You die and become God -- which is pure Infinite Love.

That's Death!

Death = Infinite Love

Did you really think God would let you die into some hell? Don't confuse God for a devil. God has ensured that all beings die into Infinite Love. How did God guarantee this? By making Love and Death identical! Ta-da!

[tsuki]

@Leo Gura You addressed the "must" in my question, which is not what I was asking about.

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Why not construct a version (story) of nonduality that factors the ego in instead of battling it?

Yes, you can do that. Battling the ego can sometimes be a useful formuation, but often not. Often the better approach might be to love the ego to death, so to speak.

You have to appreciate that every formulation will be dualistic. Every teaching will be dualistic, even nondual teachings. True nonduality cannot be spoken.

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What if Christianity is like that?

Christianity is very dualistic in misleading ways.

For example, the notion of being "a sinner" creates a battle between ego and God.

"A sinner" is just a devil, ego, or self. But the sinner is an illusion. There is no sinner and no sin. Most Christians do not understand this. Christians gets trapped in the duality of good vs evil, which itself becomes the source of the illusion of evil. The mind creates evil by imagining it.

When you say, "Look, that Hitler was evil!" << you just created evil without realizing it because you are not conscious of what you're doing. And to make matters worse, you then deny it and attack me for pointing it out to you

[tsuki]

@Leo Gura What most people make of Christianity is of little interest to me. Have a good day.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@Leo Gura What most people make of Christianity is of little interest to me. Have a good day.

Then you will fall into the same trap as them.

I find your lack of interest disturbing.

[tsuki]

27 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Then you will fall into the same trap as them.

I find your lack of interest disturbing.

I was lying. I just wanted to end this conversation because I'm disappointed with it.
You're not talking with me, but writing articles that summarize your teachings. You're even sprinkling them with your signature ta-daams. You're not even considering the points that I'm making. I find it insulting, to be frank (that's probably because I'm an ego that is threatened, right?).

I'm familiar with your work and I don't find it to be contradictory with Christianity. It's just written from a different perspective with different symbols.

Edited January 24, 2020 by tsuki

[LfcCharlie4]

@Leo Gura Great point, realizing Hitler/ Trump is you makes it impossible to do anything but love them unconditionally, as with everything. 

More of an SD question I guess, how do we then go about overcoming these sorts of people though, I mean in the future I get education and everything will prevent a lot of stage Red devilry, but say the Hitlers of today, what can we do to 'help' them see through their devilry and stop them relatively speaking destroying lives. I mean on a much lesser scales you have CEO's of giant corporations technically allowing the destruction of the Earth, is it mere education and development that helps prevent this? Or is there something more that needs to be done to help stop the damage being done and in the long run prevent it? 

Sorry if it's wordy and rambly but I think you'll get what I mean, even on an individual level people can have a large impact and It seems on that level it is strongly about education and understanding that prevents people from say littering, but then it comes to murder and violence it is much more complex. 

[Haloman]

@Leo Gura Why God couldn't imagine this world without hunger in my stomach? He is omnipotent. I can't see how it would prevent creation for maximizing love.

[Dan502]

3 hours ago, Haloman said:

@Leo Gura Why God couldn't imagine this world without hunger in my stomach? He is omnipotent. I can't see how it would prevent creation for maximizing love.

@Haloman if you never felt hungry, how would you know when to eat?

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, tsuki said:

You're not even considering the points that I'm making.

I addressed your points directly multiple times.

9 hours ago, tsuki said:

I find it insulting, to be frank

Sigh....

Pearls before swine.

[Leo Gura]

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I can't see how it would prevent creation for maximizing love.

That's precisely the problem. Your vision is so limited that you do not even comprehend the simple fact that without pain in your body you'd be dead by the age of 3.

All of the suffering of your body is there to make sure you survive long enough to do spiritual work.

Think of it this way, if you were designing a child from scratch, would you give your child the ability to feel pain? If you say "Obviously no!", you're a fool because that means your child will only be able to survive a year or two at most.

You must contemplate the genius of God's design. Nothing is there willy-nilly. Nothing is there to torture you for the sake of torturing you. If you think something is not necessary, think again. If it exists, it is necessary in the bigger picture. Just keep in mind that the picture is really, really, really big. God's design must account for all creatures, not just your personal pleasure.

[Kushu2000]

@Leo Gura umm i still cant get over the fact that you said in a previous video that you can manipulate physical reality if you become "sufficiently conscious".. but then you use a cop-out statement "if god let everyone be able to manipulate physical reality the world would be chaos". I mean what, do you srsly believe you will be able to make a table dissapear one day for example just because of your sheer will? I think you've been watching way too much nithyananda and sai baba.. hint hint.. both have been exposed as NOT being able to levitate AND not able to "materialize" objects into existence.

[Kushu2000]

@Leo Gura also, leo, you talk about being open minded.. have you ever tried praying to jesus? Did you ever experience the holy spirit? From what i've read you haven't, so how can you speak with such authority on the topic of christianity?

Edited January 24, 2020 by Kushu2000

[SgtPepper]

Jesus and non-duality are the same thing.

Jesus is just the map or representation of what that means as a human being. 

We gotta understand the history of the Bible to really get what it is doing. Who is the target audience, what are higher level messages, etc. 

Christian mysticism focuses deeply on non-duality and has similar practices to buddhism. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychasm. Early christians were monks who spent time in stillness, silence, and used the Bible as a form of mantra to reach the Godhead.

I also think people constantly misrepresent Jesus. He actually invites us to be one with the God in the same he is one with God, this can be seen in the gospel of John, I believe. 

-----

There is also convincing evidence that early Christians, including Jesus used psychedelics (See the gospel of Thomas & Psychedelics gospels)

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by SgtPepper

[Codrina]

@Dino D This topic opened doors.

Loved the conversation between you two @Leo Gura @tsuki

I just want to say I felt first hand what it's like for the ego to try and anchor itself into an old Christianity paradigm.

I was baptized Christian Orthodox, and even though my family didn't have a spiritual practice, I did. I loved it. I used to read a lot of spiritual texts and pray every night. I loved God, my guarding angel and Mary; I talked to them often. Jesus was not on my mind, though. All of this was happening when I was still a child. My father got concerned, for some reason, at a point and yelled at me to stop this non-sense. So I kinda did, especially growing old, getting concerned with boys and all.

In my twenties I got back into spirituality, but on the Buddhist side. Years of developing compassion, focus and mindfulness let me to my first awakening experience. It opened doors. 

I grew more and had other awakenings. Last year I stumbled into Leo, which opened new doors. And found myself, less than 6 months ago, in a very real confusion.  

For some reason I found myself thinking about God, the Christian version, and the devil, and sin. I was questioning my insights - is it real or is it the devil trying to trick me into thinking I am God... very real confusion! 

It only lasted for about a week or two, though. I have the advantage of not clinging to my beliefs. I kinda know whatever I think is real right now,it will soon change. Maybe because I, as a human,  have always changed. So, I don't take myself very seriously. I love exploring, all domains, and with new information comes new understanding, therefore a new ego with different actions.

My last awakening, however, was quite powerful. It made me see reality at a deeper level. I don't think I will ever go back thinking seriously about the Christian God. 

 

[SgtPepper]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Christianity is very dualistic in misleading ways.

For example, the notion of being "a sinner" creates a battle between ego and God.

"A sinner" is just a devil, ego, or self. But the sinner is an illusion. There is no sinner and no sin. Most Christians do not understand this. Christians gets trapped in the duality of good vs evil, which itself becomes the source of the illusion of evil. The mind creates evil by imagining it.

When you say, "Look, that Hitler was evil!" << you just created evil without realizing it because you are not conscious of what you're doing. And to make matters worse, you then deny it and attack me for pointing it out to you

Would you say that evil and sinning exists from a relative perspective? Perhaps we sin to realize the pain and anguish only to stop sinning to maximize a higher form of love?

[Codrina]

@Kushu2000 Manipulating physical reality as you get more conscious.

Whatever version of reality you can imagine already exists. 

By becoming more conscious,you actually increase your capacity to navigate through this reality.

Imagine yourself as a pilot. If you have terrible skills, you can only travel so far. Once you improve your skills, there is nothing stopping you.

Whatever reality you dream of, it is already out there. NOW. You just can't see it, because your focus is not strong enough. For you to experience it, you first have to raise your vibration, make it fast enough to catch whatever you desire. If you are scared that you will be unloved, homeless and addicted, I just want to tell you that you already are. If you are thrilled that one day you will be loved and cherished,I want you to know you already are.  Whatever reality you want - it is there. The more conscious you are, the more it will be revealed. 

I am talking from direct experience. This last few months strange and amazing things happened. 

 

 

[Dino D]

A lot of guessing here... yes, smart and logical, but from a critical view most of your guessing can be exposed...

Like nothing is true

Mybe thats true

Non duality wins most of the argument,s not all

 

I dont know, deep down i feel im guilty for my sins, i should make them right and i should be 100% true to who I am... nobody does that, also somehow i belive that Jesus is ,,special" and that the bible has acwkwardly to many hints about us, about this non dual perspective, even about veganism, about false prohpets that we can spot by the followers that dont make it...  still maybe thata how deep indoctrinations feela like... like true...

However im not relevant here to speak, im not ,,on your level" but i like it that this video lead  to a conversation... bobby can we right or wrong, he is still one of the best youtubers in his ,,genre" 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Dino D