If you aren't conscious of something does that mean it doesn't exist?

[Nash]

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, then it doesn't make a sound, correct?

[rNOW]

If a tree falls in the woods, and nobody is around to hear it, then it doesn't make a sound to 'nobody'. Consciousness pertains to the person who is conscious of something. Without the person, it doesn't exist for that person. Maybe the tree that fell heard the sound of itself, but to me/you that woods or tree doesn't exist in our consciousness and hence the falling sound doesn't either. 

[Nahm]

@Nash

“If you aren't conscious of something does that mean it doesn't exist?”

What is nonexistence? 

(You are referencing what-doesn’t-exist.)

There isn’t a thing to be conscious of  to begin with. 

[undeather]

10 hours ago, Nash said:

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, then it doesn't make a sound, correct?

What you indetify as a sound is your brain rendering electric signals that are ultimately caused by compression/rarefaction of air (longitudinal waves).

Without conciousness there wouldnt be a tree to begin with.
Even if there is no "human" or "animal" to perceive that sound, conciousness is everywhere.

[Telepresent]

I like Jed Mckenna's deconstruction of this question. 

The tree makes a sound because the question says so. The question establishes that the tree and the forest exist independently of observation; therefore it stands to reason that the sound is also made independently of observation. 

If you feel like arguing with that conclusion, I would suggest not focusing on the conclusion, but the point it is making about the question

[assx95]

On 12/19/2019 at 8:10 AM, Nash said:

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, then it doesn't make a sound, correct?

What do you mean by nobody? Surely, there are insects, birds, animals, fungi and Microorganisms in the woods. Nothing is practical about your initial setting. Sound is basically vibration we are sensitive to. Sound is made not by the tree but by the perceptual mechanism of the organisms which can detect such vibration. 

The concept of the tree and the woods was ostensibly defined by you, when you experienced the sight of it unless you've never seen a tree or woods. 
Even your sight is a construction. If there's someone who can detect the vibration caused by the tree falling in that present moment, then yes, logically, the sound will be made. 

But then there are auditory hallucinations. And you're making up this scenario, but has it ever happened? Did a tree ever fall in the woods? Be careful when you answer this. You don't know. And if you know, then you could probably hear it. 

Also be careful about how you frame the question, there are too many assumptions which simply beg the question. But that is inevitable it seems. 

[mike1111]

On 12/19/2019 at 2:40 AM, Nash said:

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, then it doesn't make a sound, correct?

Not correct. Whether you hear it or not makes no difference to anything except you. The vibrations are still there. Its just that you don't pick them up.

[Inliytened1]

On 12/18/2019 at 8:40 PM, Nash said:

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, then it doesn't make a sound, correct?

This very question really bothered me ever since i was a kid.

It was only after i found spirituality that the question could finally be answered.

You see, if you are coming from the materialist paradigm, then this question should bother you.  If it doesn't you are probably never gonna have a chance at ever awakening.

Because if there was an objective, physical reality, then how could something exist if no one is there to be conscious of it?  

The materialist would chalk it up to "oh well, its just beyond our understanding.  Its happening without anyone seeing it and that's that.  God sees it from the clouds. Etc etc."

But when you discover that reality is a mind - it is consciousness - then it all makes sense.  And the tree and the sound exist as pure consciousness - pure potentiality.  It only collapses into a tree when being observed.  A subject / object duality is created    What's really going on is pure being.    The raw data, sights and sounds are there when not being "perceived" or "heard", existing as Being.   Leo's video on what is perception can really help clear this up for you.  Quantum mechanics revealed this as well.

That is why if you are actually able to collapse yourself into Being, you will literally cease to exist as you.  You will be Being!   You've collapsed the subject/object duality. 

[Nahm]

@Inliytened1 ??♥️ 

 

@Nash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1YqgPAtzho

Maybe give this a listen or two, and comment on what it’s revealing. 

[SoonHei]

On 19/12/2019 at 7:40 AM, Nash said:

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, then it doesn't make a sound, correct?

My friend saw the tree he said it made sound. I ask him what is the sound it is making. He replied purple.

[mike1111]

2 hours ago, SoonHei said:

My friend saw the tree he said it made sound. I ask him what is the sound it is making. He replied purple.

The thing is, he wouldn't say that if he was being truthful.

In the double slit experiment, observation and measurement have an effect on what happens. That is true in the world of sub atomic particles. It doesn't happen on the scale of falling trees. The tree isn't going to fall any differently whether you watch it or not. The only difference is whether you will know about it or not.

[Highest]

On 19/12/2019 at 3:40 AM, Nash said:

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, then it doesn't make a sound, correct?

The atheist materialist rationalist scientific-minded would say... doesn't matter.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Highest

[WelcometoReality]

 

8 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Because if there was an objective, physical reality, then how could something exist if no one is there to be conscious of it?  

Could you expand on this?

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

 

Could you expand on this?

That question used to break mind - probably because my intuition probably kicked in.  But honestly if reality was a dumb physical universe would it make sense that it could exist independent of consciousness?  It doesn't compute for me.  Maybe I'm wired that way. 

[WelcometoReality]

21 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

That question used to break mind - probably because my intuition probably kicked in.  But honestly if reality was a dumb physical universe would it make sense that it could exist independent of consciousness?  It doesn't compute for me.  Maybe I'm wired that way. 

It doesn't make sense once the barriers of separation dissolves then it's clear that consciousness is nothing and everything. We are indoctrinated with the illusion of a physical world made out of matter from such a young age though that I still have a hard time to make sense of it (though I haven't really tried to answer these types of questions since the realization). My first response to the question if the tree makes any sound was:

No sound is made because there isn't an ear there to interpret the  waves as sound. That's from the old paradigm. It assumes that there is an objective world and that the tree falls.

I just realized there is much work needed to integrate and shift to a new paradigm.

[Inliytened1]

@WelcometoReality yah. 

There can't even be a physical tree outside of consciousness because in order for there to be anything it has to first be in your consciousness.  Everything is held within consciousness.  The materialist paradigm has it so backwards.

 

[WelcometoReality]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@WelcometoReality yah. 

There can't even be a physical tree outside of consciousness because in order for there to be anything it has to first be in your consciousness.  Everything is held within consciousness.  The materialist paradigm has it so backwards.

 

Yes it seems obvious. That is what is experienced. It's just this present moment, the thoughts about there being anything else than this has disappeared.

It's funny how no one can prove that there is anything else and yet everyone believes it.

[LastThursday]

@Nash to get to the bottom of it, you have to understand what "exists" means.

There's two kinds of "exists". One is the direct experience of hearing a tree fall, right now. The other is imagining hearing a tree fall in some forest somewhere. One is a certainty the other a possibility. Don't underestimate how confused people are between the two types of existence.

Naturally, if you push it a lot further there is no difference between the two types of existence: they both occur in consciousness. In the end one is not more real than the other. Even a concrete direct experience is just imagination - albeit one that can kill you (when a tree falls on you).

[Nash]

@Nahm So what I got from that video is experience is dependent upon the experiencer, and what we see is only "there" if we are here.

 

Does this mean that I am my experience? 

If nothing is real, then doesn't that mean that real is real but it is nothing? And all of the things I've experienced are not real because they are all things and i have never experienced nothingness truly? How can I experience nothing if experience isn't real but nothingness is? Seems paradoxical

Edited December 24, 2019 by Nash

[Nemo28]

On 20/12/2019 at 3:07 PM, Nahm said:

@Inliytened1 ??♥️ 

 

@Nash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1YqgPAtzho

Maybe give this a listen or two, and comment on what it’s revealing. 

Amazing!