Marks199

The Amazon a threat to our future

84 posts in this topic

@Scholar i`m a vegan.

but you see if the meat is cheep, of course they eat it every day... what the... even european farmers have to give up because of the massive price dumping it`s hillarious - it`s an overproduction crisis.

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59 minutes ago, remember said:

@Scholar i`m a vegan.

but you see if the meat is cheep, of course they eat it every day... what the... even european farmers have to give up because of the massive price dumping it`s hillarious - it`s an overproduction crisis.

Yes but the problem is that the market will find solutions to cheapen the prices at all costs. They will lobby, they will invade other countries and burn their forests down. They will incentivise goverments to support them.

Don't forget that they are being funded by everyone who buys meat. That's billions of people. That won't just go away by regulation, especially when people aren't even informed that the problem is the meat industry. Currently you have western goverments subsidizing the costs of meat. Because of the demand of entire populations, goverments will use taxes to make meat affordable. And they have to, it's what the people want.

The people want meat.

 

Either we change the people's wants, or we find a better way to produce meat. I don't see any other viable option that will solve this problem in any meaningful way. If we had all the time in the world it would be different. But the facts are that our time is very limited. The only way to stop this it to create radical change.

Edited by Scholar

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If you are so worried about it, why not jump on a plane and join a humanitarian organisation in Brazil to save the forest? 

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2 minutes ago, Quicksilver said:

If you are so worried about it, why not jump on a plane and join a humanitarian organisation in Brazil to save the forest? 

Because Brazilian forests are not the only thing people are worried about, aside from the fact that humanitarian organisations don't save forests.

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No the point is do something instead of moaning that the world does not conform to your ideals. 

Get out of your armchair and fix the issue!

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4 minutes ago, Quicksilver said:

No the point is do something instead of moaning that the world does not conform to your ideals. 

Get out of your armchair and fix the issue!

How do you propose to fix the issue?

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Don't ask me, thats for you to figure out. 

That's all life is about figuring out what to do next. 

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4 hours ago, Quicksilver said:

Don't ask me, thats for you to figure out. 

That's all life is about figuring out what to do next. 

Exactly. This is what we are doing here. Figuring it out.

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@Scholar yes of course you are right in the sense of making a big change in meat consumption it would perfectly make sense to make people realize that meat consumption is part of the problem. but even if a lot of people turn vegan or vegetarian with a reduced milk produkt and egg consumption or even a reduced meat consumption, there would still be the other extreme of people turning meatarians because they just care for what they think makes them more competitive and "healthy" as it is a comon myth that it`s impossible to live a healthy plant based diet in a lot of countries.

the problem with pushing these diets is not that there are not people who do it, the problem is that the attempt to make people aware is already going on for some time and even though more and more people make a change this is by far not enough and definitely not fast enough to stop the development of soy production in the mind of the people in south amerika. even if it is, they would only realize it two or three years later after the money is not coming in as expected. a lot of the problems are probably because of land speculation and tricking people into investment at the moment. (this is pure speculation, also from my side).

i see already a rapid change in some of european big cities towards a vegan trend especially in young people with higher education and income who already have one leg in green, also here the availability of vegan products makes the change much more easy - but it`s illusionary to expect it on a global scale as the main meat consumption happens exactly where meat is still a luxury product and interpreted as a sign for wealth.

also if the meat production would go down they would probably start to feed that gene manipulated soy directly to the people. that`s probably part of the businesscase. so the main goal is really on sustainability and more biological produced agricultural food - as the demand for that will grow in sense of being the new luxury food. even in china it will happen at some point.

Edited by remember

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21 hours ago, Yog said:

Yea, you didn't see that one coming :P he has his worn days. Posted it half jokingly, seemed interestingly dark and funny.

Nevertheless.

Still, he did work on these issues for couple of years with the UN. Went trough the relevant literature and got some of the points right. This is as I see it, an opinion based on working with the worlds leading edge people that do these things. Not just some tired ramblings. No need to straw man the man because he had a bad day and said things in a bad vibe. Thus the humor happened. Take the content seriously, especially when it seems bizarre.

He may have good points, at least those that are driven by data and are proven to work. It not actually his, he is just referencing it. Its people that cause these things, politics, underdevelopment ect.

Not that I am defending or agreeing with it.
I honestly do not know what to do with it.

The answer to JP's bullshit excuses is Green New Deal. It's already being planned out.

While JP whines, real leaders like Bernie and AOC have real plans.

21 hours ago, MsNobody said:

@Marks199 Im Brazilian and all I can do is cry cause I’m a sensitive bitch, I’ve been feeling so much pain in my heart, but this week I started to channel the energy and focus on my life purpose, I’ve been sharing videos with friends and had donated for amazon ONGs and tribes, and still I feel hopeless. 

My whole family loves Bolsonaro, they are also extremists, it’s just crazy how deluded and ignorant Brazilians are, some people don’t even believe that amazon is on fire, and think media is creating this story to destroy Bolsonaro’s image, my mom said that the black out at 3pm where the smoke took over São Paulo, was because of a fire in the countryside of the city, not from the amazon 😟 the ignorance is just immesurabble.. and knowing the president well I’m afraid to say he won’t stop so soon. 

What to do @Leo Gura

Work on raising your own consciousness.

Trust that reality is not so fragile. We have been through worse and the planet will survive.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo Gura.

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Wait is the world ending. Is it game over? Will we all just die because we dont have enough oxygen. 

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9 hours ago, remember said:

@Scholar yes of course you are right in the sense of making a big change in meat consumption it would perfectly make sense to make people realize that meat consumption is part of the problem. but even if a lot of people turn vegan or vegetarian with a reduced milk produkt and egg consumption or even a reduced meat consumption, there would still be the other extreme of people turning meatarians because they just care for what they think makes them more competitive and "healthy" as it is a comon myth that it`s impossible to live a healthy plant based diet in a lot of countries.

the problem with pushing these diets is not that there are not people who do it, the problem is that the attempt to make people aware is already going on for some time and even though more and more people make a change this is by far not enough and definitely not fast enough to stop the development of soy production in the mind of the people in south amerika. even if it is, they would only realize it two or three years later after the money is not coming in as expected. a lot of the problems are probably because of land speculation and tricking people into investment at the moment. (this is pure speculation, also from my side).

i see already a rapid change in some of european big cities towards a vegan trend especially in young people with higher education and income who already have one leg in green, also here the availability of vegan products makes the change much more easy - but it`s illusionary to expect it on a global scale as the main meat consumption happens exactly where meat is still a luxury product and interpreted as a sign for wealth.

also if the meat production would go down they would probably start to feed that gene manipulated soy directly to the people. that`s probably part of the businesscase. so the main goal is really on sustainability and more biological produced agricultural food - as the demand for that will grow in sense of being the new luxury food. even in china it will happen at some point.

Which is why I told you that it is paramount to find a meat-replacement, like lab grown meat, instead of waiting for cultural changes that might take decades.

Again, even if we are the soy that the animals ate, we would reduce the amount of it being produced substantially. Cows require far, far more soy to produce the same amount of calories in meat.

Whether people want to eat soy or not is their choice, even if everyone ate soy instead of meat we would be far better off than now. But you yourself recognize that this is not a solution that can be implemented in time. So again, meat replacement is of utmost importance.

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Someone wrote this comment on a youtube video. Couldn't of said it better.

Amazonia (The Amazon Rainforest), is the world's largest intact forest. 2.6 million square miles in the Amazon basin, about 40 percent of South America, with 4,100 miles of winding rivers. It’s home to more than 24 million people in Brazil alone, including hundreds of thousands of Indigenous Peoples belonging to 180 different groups.

There’s a reason the Amazon was the place that inspired scientists to coin the term “biodiversity.” The region is home to 10 percent of all plant and animal species known on Earth. There are approximately 40,000 species of plants, more than 400 species of mammals, 3,000 freshwater fish species. and more than 370 types of reptiles. Birds add almost 1,300, and the insects reach millions.

In addition to its unparalleled diversity of life, the Amazon plays an essential role in helping to control the entire planet’s atmospheric carbon levels. The Amazon Basin stores approximately 100 billion metric tons of carbon, more than ten times the annual global emissions from fossil fuels. The Amazon stores carbon dioxide and prevents it from entering the atmosphere and fueling climate change.

Deforestation, on the other hand, releases that carbon into the air, making climate change worse. Because of this, deforestation accounts for about 10 to 15 percent of global greenhouse gas emissions. Losing the Amazon means more carbon emissions and a warmer world. A healthy Amazon Rainforest is vital for all life on Earth, and needs to be protected. Because if we lose the Amazon, we lose everything.


B R E A T H E

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12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The answer to JP's bullshit excuses is Green New Deal. It's already being planned out.

While JP whines, real leaders like Bernie and AOC have real plans.

That allergy of yours.
He just answered a question, there was no whining, you created it :

The main answer was:
- Mankind is not going to unite over ecological/environment issues. To which you will probably agree, you covered in your videos yourself. People and governments across the world are way too different from one another and care about different things. Their level of development impacts that. What Brazil is doing right now is a clear demonstration for this. Politics impairs the implementation of science. That was it.

The side points were:
- "Eco-energy" does not exist. Capacitor/battery technology is not there yet, it does more harm than good. His opinion is a little outdated and based on his research and work with the UN around 2014 and pre that. Battery technology has gone a long way since than, the video is oldish too, so it makes perfect sense. Also we have to really consider ALL that goes into this and tiny those-devilish details and compare them to what we have now. Not just do some grand-scene talks and implement goblin level of solutions. I've seen this way too often in my country.

Still, battery technology seems not to be here in 2019. Its better but not here, it needs work, but it is not actual. I may be ignorant about it and not up to date though. I would be glad to see some solid info if it is the case.

- So if it doesn't exist yet, why not focus on other huge problems in the meantime, for which we have solutions that actually work and have also been shown to solve ecological/environment issues. Why not focus on those, at least politically, because we have the ways to do so while generating real results. His point was that Germany just made the ecological situation worse by going solar. Because of not looking into the details and going goblin. The development of this technology can continue, ofc it can, but why implement goblin solutions, when we can do better ?

-"In our language around here" he also stated: Get more people across the globe to green and than they will start caring about the environment. Until than, do not expect it. Something that you will probably also agree to.

So In a way....It is weird that Green New Deal is intending to implement things that do not exist. According to him, so it smells to me. How do you plan for things that do not exist. Its like going on a date with a internet girl you have never seen and expect her to show up. I have to look ...more ...into this.

It will be no wonder if in the next 10 years other Trumps show up uttering the language of Eco, solar, clean, wind.
You'll get a lot of young folks votes. People surely don't want to question their "savior".


Its not some rant I am going for here.

Its our job to be skeptical and try to break things, if they break easily and are not stable, than they are probably not solid, therefrom - the meaning of the word solid.

I do believe that both humans and rest of nature are extremely resilient and will find ways to go on. We will make it into solar, wind even and even discover some miraculous new sources of energy. We will also be clumsy goblins.

Edited by Yog

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28 minutes ago, Yog said:

He just answered a question, there was no whining, you created it

Lol

He didn't *just* answer a question.

He answered the question with the tone and attitude of a man with sand in his vagina.

His mind framed the answer in such a way as to dismiss the myriad ways we could immediately act to alleviate the climate crisis.

To say that it's such a complex problem that we don't know what to do is absurd. We can start by banning oil companies from paying politicians to lie about climate change. These oil companies have known about climate change (internally) for 50 years!

Carbon Tax! There's your answer. But JP is lost in philosophical right-wing distractions.

To maintain his anti-SJW position he has to make it seem like climate activism is somehow foolish when it is actually the most obvious thing. What's foolish is criticizing people who care about the environment.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo Gura.

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JP is a master "concern troll". He tries to express his "concern" about an issue like Climate change or gender inequality and then trolls. JP is trolling at Orange, so it will resonate with Orange and they won't be able to "get it". One needs to be a Green/Yellow to see/sense/understand the dynamics.

Notice how JP states his "concern" about Climate change. There is now enough Green consciousness in the U.S. that people need to acknowledge and address their "concerns" about climate change to maintain credibility. Climate change deniers are beginning to become marginalized and left behind. Anyone who wants to stay relevant now and moving forward needs to a least acknowledge climate change and express "concerns" about it. 

Yet, there is a big difference between expressing "concerns" at an Orange or Green/Yellow level. Someone centered at Blue/Orange will may express "concerns" about an issue, yet then tries to manipulate the narrative to resist progress up toward Green. "Yes, climate change is real and a serious issue that can negatively impact many of people. However. . . (insert Blue/Orange resistance to Green - "it's not man-made, it's too complicated, there is still so much uncertainty, the world wouldn't unite on this). The energy is to pull down to Blue/Orange.

A green/yellow person may address "concerns" yet the orientation is different. A green/yellow person is concerned about climate change and may be concerned about details of certain proposals to address climate change. Yet those concerns are oriented toward improving the proposals, not dismissing, delaying or sabatoging the proposals. For example, a green/yellow may be concerned that Bernie's climate change plan does not engage the global community enough and we should put a lot of energy in developing global climate change alliances with influence to shame and punish those that don't cooperate. In contrast, an Orange-level person may be "concerned" about the impact of climate change, yet is also "concerned" that Bernie's plan would cut into corporate profits and individual liberty. Rather than trying to improve Bernie's proposal with new modifications or innovative ideas, they wold want to dismiss his proposal as being "unreasonable, unworkable, too extreme" etc. to maintain Orange status quo.

@Yog You are getting duped by JP because you are not conscious of his orientation and underlying dynamics. It is not just his criticism, it is his orientation.

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6 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

JP is a master "concern troll". He tries to express his "concern" about an issue like Climate change or gender inequality and then trolls. JP is trolling at Orange, so it will resonate with Orange and they won't be able to "get it". One needs to be a Green/Yellow to see/sense/understand the dynamics.

Notice how JP states his "concern" about Climate change. There is now enough Green consciousness in the U.S. that people need to acknowledge and address their "concerns" about climate change to maintain credibility. Climate change deniers are beginning to become marginalized and left behind. Anyone who wants to stay relevant now and moving forward needs to a least acknowledge climate change and express "concerns" about it. 

Yet, there is a big difference between expressing "concerns" at an Orange or Green/Yellow level. Someone centered at Blue/Orange will may express "concerns" about an issue, yet then tries to manipulate the narrative to resist progress up toward Green. "Yes, climate change is real and a serious issue that can negatively impact many of people. However. . . (insert Blue/Orange resistance to Green - "it's not man-made, it's too complicated, there is still so much uncertainty, the world wouldn't unite on this). The energy is to pull down to Blue/Orange.

A green/yellow person may address "concerns" yet the orientation is different. A green/yellow person is concerned about climate change and may be concerned about details of certain proposals to address climate change. Yet those concerns are oriented toward improving the proposals, not dismissing, delaying or sabatoging the proposals. For example, a green/yellow may be concerned that Bernie's climate change plan does not engage the global community enough and we should put a lot of energy in developing global climate change alliances with influence to shame and punish those that don't cooperate. In contrast, an Orange-level person may be "concerned" about the impact of climate change, yet is also "concerned" that Bernie's plan would cut into corporate profits and individual liberty. Rather than trying to improve Bernie's proposal with new modifications or innovative ideas, they wold want to dismiss his proposal as being "unreasonable, unworkable, too extreme" etc. to maintain Orange status quo.

@Yog You are getting duped by JP because you are not conscious of his orientation and underlying dynamics. It is not just his criticism, it is his orientation.

Yeah this is why it's harder to determine ones stage than it used to be. People have a far easier time nowadays to find memes of higher stages and kind of incorporate them into their own ideological system. Especially stage orange people can find a lot of value in stage yellow because stage yellow is very solution based oriented in general, and also to an extend individualistic. A stage orange person might not value systemic thinking in an of it self, it might not value authenticity itself, it might however value the results it will get from these higher stage tools.

Edited by Scholar

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WHATS THE BIG DEAL WITH JP? 

I have watched 2 or 3 videos of his that were interesting. 

And the rest of his videos....SO FUCKING BORING. I can't watch them. 

How can you guys even listen to all his stuff. Including you guys who are anti JP but apparently know exactly what he is saying. 

Really....SO FUCKING BORING....please....

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1 hour ago, SFRL said:

And the rest of his videos....SO FUCKING BORING. I can't watch them. 

How can you guys even listen to all his stuff. Including you guys who are anti JP but apparently know exactly what he is saying. 

Really....SO FUCKING BORING....please....

He has strong influence on a considerable portion of the populace in a way that some of us believe is inhibiting development and progress. 

It's not really about trying to entertain myself. It's more about the effect at a collective level. . . If there was a virus that interfered with human development, some people would have a desire to raise awareness to others. They wouldn't say "Well, I'm immune to the virus and I find the virus boring - I'd rather find videos to entertain myself". 

Others would not find it important and would not engage. And that's cool too.

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