Marks199

The Amazon a threat to our future

89 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

22 hours ago, remember said:

if we think more lokal than about world meat consumption in general, the question in this situation also is: what alternatives could be introduced instead of cattlefarming and soy production that would work more symbiotic with the rainforrest? be lucrative enough to protect the rainforrest instead of destroying it? in brazil there is already acaii and other fruits that only grow at the boarder of the rainforrest. if enough jobs can be created in the longterm that are involved in preservation of the forrest, there will be no demand to burn the forrest anymore especially if the meat demand is from another continent.

It doesn't really matter though because the meat demand is going to be there, and therefore a forest will need to be cut down somewhere. The meat demand is going up not down, by a substantial amount. By the time China and India will have the same demand per capita as we have, we will use every inch of the planets viable surface for the soy that we feed the cows with. And even that would not satisfy the demand.

If everyone went vegan this instant, we could regrow the forests we have burned down and could use a fraction of the land that we currently use to feed cows to feed us directly instead. The problem would be solved.

But that will not happen, so creating a true meat substitude is paramount.

 

Read this article:

https://ourworldindata.org/agricultural-land-by-global-diets

Edited by Scholar

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16 hours ago, Fortunate Son said:

Fuck this human society starting all the way from Mesopotamia, Ancient Egypt, Greece, Roman Empire, Middle-age Islam, European Christianity, British Empire and now this Global Modern Consumerist Shit Hole, starting from United states of America, the center of malignancy!

We should stay in forests as hunters and gatherers. At least we respected the environment then and were living in small tribes and communities, not isolated from God and His beautiful creation called Earth.

Always the same story: natives living in harmony with nature until "high society" came with their mechanisation and interests saying: "this is OUR land now". And the natives understood everything except "OUR land". What the fuck is possession? They said: "We are just borrowing this land from our future generations".

And where are the billionaires now, our modern society heroes, our archetypes, our gods? Where are the 100000000000000 trillions of dollars now to save our precious environment? 

Your problem is blaming a entire civilization for the decisions of the psychopath elites who are in power. Do you think the average citizen mentally sane wants the amazon destroyed? Or are the greedy bastard families who own multinationals and giant banks?

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Stage Orange! Literally! Set the world ablaze! Burn it down! 

 

:(

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"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Posted (edited)

18 hours ago, Scholar said:

It doesn't really matter though because the meat demand is going to be there, and therefore a forest will need to be cut down somewhere. The meat demand is going up not down, by a substantial amount. By the time China and India will have the same demand per capita as we have, we will use every inch of the planets viable surface for the soy that we feed the cows with. And even that would not satisfy the demand.

If everyone went vegan this instant, we could regrow the forests we have burned down and could use a fraction of the land that we currently use to feed cows to feed us directly instead. The problem would be solved.

But that will not happen, so creating a true meat substitude is paramount.

 

Read this article:

https://ourworldindata.org/agricultural-land-by-global-diets

well yes probably - but even if the meat production or consumption is the problem/trigger (as you see they might constitute each other) it`s not the mechanism where you turn the screws. it`s important to integrate the meat consumption into the global picture, but remember the fire is always lokal not in the whole area. you can`t truly extinguish a fire where it`s not burning. also if there are two holes in the bucket and you can at first only fix one hole, you fix the one at the bottom first.

meat consumption is maybe the big big picture from a macroscopic view but the amazon is a fragile microcosm with a real body that is butchered in reality - a real vegan doesn`t only care for the cows.

we are both addressing issues that have to be addressed aswell globally as at the centers of where the fires are burning. but even then seen globally there are more fires than meat consumption. for example there must be a stop to selling property to countries on a global scale! for example there must be a limit of how much of land or living space can be owned by foreign people in a strange country! - if people don`t have any connection to the culture that is connected to the eart or inhabitants, people become numbers and life is on sale.

 

i`m addressing this because it`s also a problem in high rents in european cities (people get driven out of their homes in berlin) and not only in farm land, it`s a matter of defining what are natural and cultural and civil resources that are not on sale. like we are discussing here who ownes one of the biggest oxigen source in the world, can this be owned? who ownes the air? or some regional water supplies? there are things that shouldn`t be owned by anyone but be maintained for their resources of life and culture. water is high culture for example, only high cultures where able to maintain a general water supply, high culture maintains water as a human right in states ownership as it belongs to the country.

Edited by remember
until we realize we can`t breath meat

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12 hours ago, remember said:

well yes probably - but even if the meat production or consumption is the problem/trigger (as you see they might constitute each other) it`s not the mechanism where you turn the screws. it`s important to integrate the meat consumption into the global picture, but remember the fire is always lokal not in the whole area. you can`t truly extinguish a fire where it`s not burning. also if there are two holes in the bucket and you can at first only fix one hole, you fix the one at the bottom first.

meat consumption is maybe the big big picture from a macroscopic view but the amazon is a fragile microcosm with a real body that is butchered in reality - a real vegan doesn`t only care for the cows.

we are both addressing issues that have to be addressed aswell globally as at the centers of where the fires are burning. but even then seen globally there are more fires than meat consumption. for example there must be a stop to selling property to countries on a global scale! for example there must be a limit of how much of land or living space can be owned by foreign people in a strange country! - if people don`t have any connection to the culture that is connected to the eart or inhabitants, people become numbers and life is on sale.

 

i`m addressing this because it`s also a problem in high rents in european cities (people get driven out of their homes in berlin) and not only in farm land, it`s a matter of defining what are natural and cultural and civil resources that are not on sale. like we are discussing here who ownes one of the biggest oxigen source in the world, can this be owned? who ownes the air? or some regional water supplies? there are things that shouldn`t be owned by anyone but be maintained for their resources of life and culture. water is high culture for example, only high cultures where able to maintain a general water supply, high culture maintains water as a human right in states ownership as it belongs to the country.

I am not sure you understand the gravity of the problem of animal agriculture. There is no other solution but to replace it. Watch the video Keyhole posted. Theres fires have been going on for years now. Not just in the amazon.

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Posted (edited)

14 hours ago, Scholar said:

I am not sure you understand the gravity of the problem of animal agriculture. There is no other solution but to replace it. Watch the video Keyhole posted. Theres fires have been going on for years now. Not just in the amazon.

watch leos video on actuality. i understand perfectly that there is a political game at play. it`s not only fires it`s plastc and electronic waste etc. there is no end to it.  i see the problem not in the meat consumption here so much as in the problem that the richer or technical advanced countries don`t realize that there are actually people living there and that only alternatives in money making wil stop the actual action of setting a fire. it`s the same as you can only stop aids by preventing it through using a condom. it`s the mind of the people who don`t care for the rainforest as long as they don`t have alternatives to live a decent life. they live in natures paradise it grows back faster than they can immagine a desert grow, how do you think they should change your mind? maybe it makes click the next time you turn around the keys in your car.

 

but to be fair as i also see that issue if it`s about what everyone can do individually here a very nice illustrated project that exists in berlin and somewhere in swizerland to show how much space what kind of food would use per capita in available arable land.

it`s a eu sponsored project by two scientists, understandable for children and grown ups:

https://www.2000m2.eu/story/

and here is was happened previous to the fires:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48807161

it`s not a fire that was put there by farmers it`s something bolsonaro was eager to do the mercosur contract was used as a pressure agains it - but now it`s through - it`s complex.

Edited by remember
it`s as if trump would install a fire-wall

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Posted (edited)

Hello darkness.
Maybe we should check out that laumberg guy,Or whatever his name is.

Edited by Yog

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@Yog Lol


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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7 hours ago, Yog said:

Hello darkness.
Maybe we should check out that laumberg guy,Or whatever his name is.

I swear he’s degrading

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, kieranperez said:

I swear he’s degrading

Yea, you didn't see that one coming :P he has his worn days. Posted it half jokingly, seemed interestingly dark and funny.

Nevertheless.

Still, he did work on these issues for couple of years with the UN. Went trough the relevant literature and got some of the points right. This is as I see it, an opinion based on working with the worlds leading edge people that do these things. Not just some tired ramblings. No need to straw man the man because he had a bad day and said things in a bad vibe. Thus the humor happened. Take the content seriously, especially when it seems bizarre.

He may have good points, at least those that are driven by data and are proven to work. It not actually his, he is just referencing it. Its people that cause these things, politics, underdevelopment ect.

Not that I am defending or agreeing with it.
I honestly do not know what to do with it.

Edited by Yog

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@kieranperez Everything he says is so confusing to me (and apparently for those students too, look at their “?” Faces

I can’t follow his train of thought, seems like he is just blabbering garbage and he drops some “intellectual” comments here and there about history or some complex subjects, to show confidence and to makes us think he knows what he is talking about. 

Very interesting figure. 


"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Shakespeare

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@Marks199 Im Brazilian and all I can do is cry cause I’m a sensitive bitch, I’ve been feeling so much pain in my heart, but this week I started to channel the energy and focus on my life purpose, I’ve been sharing videos with friends and had donated for amazon ONGs and tribes, and still I feel hopeless. 

My whole family loves Bolsonaro, they are also extremists, it’s just crazy how deluded and ignorant Brazilians are, some people don’t even believe that amazon is on fire, and think media is creating this story to destroy Bolsonaro’s image, my mom said that the black out at 3pm where the smoke took over São Paulo, was because of a fire in the countryside of the city, not from the amazon 😟 the ignorance is just immesurabble.. and knowing the president well I’m afraid to say he won’t stop so soon. 

What to do @Leo Gura


"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Shakespeare

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Posted (edited)

@MsNobody massive reforrestation, worldwide pressure, ban of southamerican soy products in animal farming, help with the development of alternative money making, pressure on the super rich brazilians from foreign industries in all fields to put pressure on bolsonaro. as soon as possible so he`d allow foreign help with puting out the fire, his actions are a joke making a worldwide joke of brazil as he tries to make a joke of the world - that`s the only thing. and of course banging on the social media drum until more brazilians wake up.

 

Edited by remember

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What is the current case .... how bad is it ? :(

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43 minutes ago, MsNobody said:

What to do @Leo Gura

What would you want to do about it if you had no fear?

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I can't see a solution to any of this other than nature doing a hard reset on the human population through drought, famine and disease that will ultimately result from this. Those that choose to ignore it (the vast majority of the human population), will be the ones to perish en mass. Those societies that put plans in place, such as hydroponics, sustainable agriculture, solar, desalination and carbon-negative green/yellow systems and technologies will have a chance of surviving the onslaught. In other words, if we don't find a solution as a species, earth will implement it's own solution and the fittest will survive. If someone has a more optimistic outlook, please explain how it would play out? 

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