TheAvatarState

All spiritual teachings are saying the same thing...

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Anyone else ever get the sense that spirituality at its essence is actually so simple that it can't even be talked about? I get this feeling that every spiritual teaching I've ever read is pointing to the same thing, and all this "fluff" is really there just to jog your mind and take you to the ultimate Truth in steps or stages. IT'S ALL SAYING THE SAME GODDAMN THING!!! I almost feel like there's nothing more to "learn" in the conventional sense, and that I need to explore trans-rational states in order to go any deeper. I can understand that if you're new to spirituality this might not resonate with you, but for those who have been studying this stuff for a while, do you understand where I'm coming from? Am I being deluded? Any input would be graciously appreciated. 


"The greatest illusion of all is the illusion of separation." - Guru Pathik

Sent from my iEgo

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@TheAvatarState Nah ur right they're all saying the same thing. 

9 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

Anyone else ever get the sense that spirituality at its essence is actually so simple that it can't even be talked about?

It's something so obvious that it gets overlooked. 


"A philosopher will ask me: what do I mean by reality? Am I talking about the physical world of nature, or am I talking about a spiritual world, or what? And to that, I have a very simple answer. When we talk about the material world, that is actually a philosophical concept. So, in the same way, if I say that reality is spiritual, that’s also a philosophical concept. And reality itself is not a concept. Reality is [Alan strikes a standing bell], and we won’t give it a name"

 

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@lmfao Thanks for the response. Just to clarify my view: recently I've been getting a holistic clarity on spirituality. Consider all the thousands upon thousands of pages written about nonduality, all the systems and models of spiritual transcendence, and all the flowery metaphors. We have access to all of it now in this age of information, and you can utterly start drowning in it. But what I've come to realize is that it's all "fluff"! It's all pointing to the same exact thing! It's job (definitely an important one, not saying it isn't valid) is to help align your rational mind to a point where you can accept the Truth. And once you start "getting it," as I feel like I have over the past few weeks, you have to drop it all. It no longer makes any sense, and it becomes so trivial. 

I feel like all wisdom also points to the same thing; consciousness. I read new inspiring quotes all the time, and I'm starting to get the sense that that wisdom is already within me, that I've almost heard it before. It's all connected. Does anyone else resonate with what I'm saying here? 


"The greatest illusion of all is the illusion of separation." - Guru Pathik

Sent from my iEgo

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@TheAvatarState The thing is, Im still gonna consume theory which is instructions based for consciousness work. Ie kriya yoga techniques, perhaps even new meditation techniques. At the end of the day, even though all these techniques are just gimmicks we use to increase our awareness they work. But you'll never reach the high states of awareness till you realise its all a gimmick, quite paradoxical. 

The thing I've found is that everyone has their own idiosyncratic way of describing things, and this applies to non duality. Many of the individual words I use in my sentences in regards to abstract topics each have an idiosyncratic pattern of emotional connotations I have about the word and images I have in mind when using the word, which is a reason communication is so difficult. The images and connotations you have about some words cannot be satisfactorily verbally distilled. You cannot telepathically show the images, feelings and intuitions you have. But our mouths will keep chatting in an attempt to bypass this, which is partially why there exists so much theory for non-duality. But is talking so bad? It amazes me how much we manage to talk past each other in debates and discussions of topics, partially due to this.

When it comes to highly abstract topics, the person writing the sentences often has a million things they want to say and they're struggling to find an articulate way to cohesively communicate their thoughts. I've noticed that if Im reading a piece of text on an abstract topic which contains a lot of vague and technical words/jargon, I cannot understand one sentence in isolation. I have to read several sentence, the whole paragraph, before I know the context of each word and where the author was coming from when they were constructing those sentences in the way that they chose. 

 

Edited by lmfao

"A philosopher will ask me: what do I mean by reality? Am I talking about the physical world of nature, or am I talking about a spiritual world, or what? And to that, I have a very simple answer. When we talk about the material world, that is actually a philosophical concept. So, in the same way, if I say that reality is spiritual, that’s also a philosophical concept. And reality itself is not a concept. Reality is [Alan strikes a standing bell], and we won’t give it a name"

 

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@TheAvatarState the teachings are not the main guidance. it's about developing enough wisdom so that you know if you're being relapse or neurotic. this is why teachers can be helpful. good teachers can spot unbalance very easily.


unborn truth

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10 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

relapse or neurotic

relapse what? What do you mean by neurotic?


"The greatest illusion of all is the illusion of separation." - Guru Pathik

Sent from my iEgo

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@TheAvatarState absolutely - you are basically at the point in your spiritual journey where you just need to BECOME it.

I like one of the references Leo made I think it was the Leo hits rock bottom one - where he was like - even if you say consciousness is "nothing" you are going to far...It's just....."IT".

I'm usually like, it's "just..." and then I feel the isness, i don't even say it.

So yeah, it sounds like you need a true awakening or if you had one you are realizing the rest is content within "it".  (and i said too much)

 


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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I definitely relate to this. Its not that hard to parrot those with nondual wisdom, to talk the talk of spirituality. For sure all this learning and talking is useful in that it points people toward the practices that assist them up the mountain, but for me personally, I’ve gotten the sense that the paradigm shifts, breakthroughs, awakening is to come from the work itself, and only motivation / pointers / course correction is going to come from the talk. In Leo’s video ‘What is God,’ he even says that the whole point of what he’s doing - trying to communicate something beyond words - is to encourage you to discover it for yourself. 

 

 

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There's still more to learn. Don't get cocky.

The big picture is all the same, yes.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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The thing is nobody can explain this


One’s center is not one’s center, it is the center of the whole. 

And the ego-center is one’s center.

That is the only difference, but that is a vast difference.- 

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@Leo Gura Agreed - always more content to learn - and even if you have had one awakening there are so many facets of awakening that there is much to experience (actually to be and become conscious of) there as well.

 

 


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There's still more to learn. Don't get cocky.

The big picture is all the same, yes.

Thank you, I felt like I was. That's why it was hard to ask this. I know there's more to learn, but it feels like at this stage I'm bloated in concepts. Maybe all this info pointing at the same Truth is just my way of pointing towards BEING that Truth before I can move on to the next stage.  


"The greatest illusion of all is the illusion of separation." - Guru Pathik

Sent from my iEgo

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Yep.  The talk is just there to get you to locate being and to realize that the Ego-Mind doesn't entirely define who/what you are.  This allows you to release from some of the sh*tty effects of being trapped in an unenlightened Ego-Mind.  

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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2 hours ago, TheAvatarState said:

relapse what? What do you mean by neurotic?

relapse = lazy and undisciplined

neurotic = dogmatic and prohibitive

Edited by ajasatya

unborn truth

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@TheAvatarState Yeah, i became conscious of that while contemplating this post last night - that you were being humble by asking this.

You are a super intelligent individual - i know that from talking to you prior.  And I know that you have had glimpses.

Since the majority of the time you are answering questions on this forum, Just the fact that you showed humility by this post and actually asked a question on this forum will push you into enlightenment (if not now at some point soon)

Do do not fear, it will reveal itself to you when the time comes.

Looking back, for me it was a lifetime in the making.  For me the past few years contained deep suffering - over what I will not discuss here - but it matters not.  But i do believe the deep suffering, combined with open mindedness, the ability to be humble,  and the lack of any particular belief or dogma, can lead to awakening.

You are well on that path my friend, and you will find it.  But remember, for me it took near 50 years.  You are what, in your 20's or early 30's?  

You have wisdom already well beyond your years, so it will probably reveal itself to you a decade sooner than it happened for me.

 

 

 

 

 


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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23 hours ago, lmfao said:

You cannot telepathically show the images, feelings and intuitions you have. But our mouths will keep chatting in an attempt to bypass this, which is partially why there exists so much theory for non-duality. But is talking so bad? It amazes me how much we manage to talk past each other in debates and discussions of topics, partially due to this.

Have you seen the movie AI: Artifical Intelligence? It's a Spielberg movie from the early 2000's, and if you haven't seen it I highly recommend it! Your point brought up some fantastic imagery from the movie, and I feel like discussing it here would spoil parts of the movie... I would love to have a discussion on this further if you've seen the movie :)


"The greatest illusion of all is the illusion of separation." - Guru Pathik

Sent from my iEgo

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@ajasatya @TheAvatarState I have relapsed and am finding it quite peaceful, 

but ultimately the single enlightened state is what the pointers are towards yes, but the scriptures and the duality bought about from different traditions can not lead you to enlightenment directly, they are all teoltlizing so to speak :)

the simplicity is: that everything is nothingness 

there is also no depth to it either, it may seem like it from the perspective of going from not knowing to knowing. just a friendly reminder :) hence the reason buddah reached perfect enlightenment. 

but what your speaking is true all religions start from the need to express the nothingness and hence end up creating fluff in different manners

 

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@Inliytened1 thank you so much! This really means a lot to me, and I can tell that you spoke from your heart when you wrote that. I can also tell that you have developed a deep wisdom and humility about your own enlightenment journey, and a part of that is not "kicking yourself" so to speak for not realizing it sooner. A lot of people DO have negative emotions or self-image about being older on the path, and I think that's the wrong way to look at it, reflecting a spiritual immaturity. I am in no way special for getting this stuff in my early 20's, and you are in no way diminished by being on the path later in life. We're all here together, growing together... I understood that's the place you're coming from, and that moved me. Thank you. 🙏


"The greatest illusion of all is the illusion of separation." - Guru Pathik

Sent from my iEgo

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