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About Dovahkiin

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  1. He put the book online for free at On the noting/labeling discussion, also probably worth mentioning that the pace and names you’re using can change. You could be going at a fast clip and then a particular pain in your back is really predominant for a long time. So you go deeply into it, and you might note “pain... pressing... pressing... pulling” to pay attention to the particular nature of the pain and how it might change.
  2. @exhale I went to a Montessori school kindergarten through 4th grade. Transitioning wasn’t too bad, and depending on your area Montessori could be better than the alternatives. That said, it has some serious downsides to consider. It encourages lopsided development of skills. For instance, being very quantitative, I put loads more self-directed time into math, at the expense of things like reading, and ended up lagging significantly in reading. The self-directed learning thing, at least in my classes, also didn’t work in practice like it was supposed to in theory. Kids gravitated toward whatever was easiest (for example, the most sought-after part of the classroom was the fish tank, because we could allocate time in our learning to simply observing the fish tank), and often exploited lack of oversight to do what was emotionally easy, aka not learn. I’m just one kid from one Montessori school and you should get more data, but these are things to consider. I’m sure many public schools do a lot worse.
  3. @d0ornokey why move there? I don’t plan to, but was asking @brovakhiin about it because he mentioned digital nomads, and CM is like the world capital of being a digital nomad. It’s very cheap, modern, friendly, has cool nature, a lot of sweet temples, amazing markets (eg the night markets) - loved visiting.
  4. @Nexeternity got it, thanks for the clarification. I was just going off of the comments from your initial post of “think the right should die,” “are happy when soldiers die or get PTSD,” etc. It sounds like there’s more to these guys, and definitely sounds possible they are green in many ways. It just also sounded very possible they are using green values for blue and orange purposes, and I thought this was a good segue to contemplate something about SD in general: the problem with using an opinion to categorize a stage of consciousness, and the potential for prior stages to “hijack” the appearance of later stages. Ultimately you know these guys, not me! More important to me are the larger, more generalized points. Cheers!
  5. @Scholar Yeah, I think your point that ideologies may be more likely to arise from states of consciousness along the spiral, but that the reverse - an ideology implying a state of consciousness - is really apt and exactly what I’m trying to talk around. Way more likely a green person puts compassion for oppressed people over an ideal of justice than lacking compassion for certain groups. I’m with you on green seeing all perspectives as valid, but seeing all perspectives as necessary or inevitable seems yellow. But then again, I’m with you on not defining someone’s level of consciousness based on one belief. Ultimately SD is infinitely dimensional like anything and categorizations are bound the fall short. Categorizations can be useful nonetheless though, I guess.
  6. @Leo Gura @Nexeternity This seems like a prime example of 1) how people almost always straddle multiples stages and 2) how the model breaks down when we try to assign particular opinions / political stances (as opposed to generalized ways of thinking) to certain stages. Green is defined by belief in equality and wide-reaching compassion. Leo, you’ve used this as a justification (which I agree with) for dispelling the fear that SJWs pose some kind of threat as collectivist thinkers. You’ve pointed out that the Soviet Union and previous iterations or communism have been blue, not green, and that your typical SJW is not the threat orange projects onto them. All true. Your typical green nowadays isn’t anything like collectivist ideologies of the past, and orange shouldn’t be so fearful. These people, however, are literally calling for the death of significant portions of the population. They furthermore reject ideas of spirituality and are nearly full-blown materialists, rationalists and pragmatists, per Nexeternity’s follow-up post. This is not just green with a few kinks! I think the problem goes back to your depiction of blue through the very narrow lens of how blue has manifested in America, the religious right, the Bible Belt, etc. By defining blue this way and then listing off hundreds of groups/opinions that define orange and green (I assume this is what you’ll do for Green), you ignore the possibility of blue consciousness latching onto one of these groups/opinions, which I’m convinced happens in the modern world, where people are exposed to all kinds of ideas left and right. You admit that there can be orange self-help or green self-help or yellow-self help. This can’t be maintained without allowing for this type of nuance applying to the other categories you list, such as progressive ideals. The boxing in of so many groups and opinions into just one color isn’t tenable. One of the subtler elements of the SD model is important here: the fact that the ego of any stage likes to fancy itself as being two stages above where it is. You alluded to this in your first SD video, and indeed, in 1951 Carl Rogers coined the idea of an “actualising tendency,” or a bias toward one side of the spiral or the other. Don Beck ended up echoing the idea, and it seems to basically come down to a bias toward either agency or communion - the individual or the collective. People will lean more heavily to one side or the other, and as a result be more amenable to stages on the same side, hence the feuds between neighboring SD stages being the most intense, and hence these coworkers espousing some green, but doing it in a blue way and lashing out against much of orange (blue and green are both collectively biased, orange biased toward the individual). When I watched your first video I felt myself really wanting to be yellow (I was orange). After all, isn’t yellow defined by knowing the model? I know the model now. If I’m yellow, that means I’ve evolved much further than most people! It means I’m awesome! Seeing this nonsense in myself, I can see parallels across stages: Red: Hey, I’m really no worse than those wall steeet guys- just looking out for numero uno! Blue: The absolute best values are fairness and equality. Now I know the truth. We need to squash all who are preventing equality. Orange: I get spiral dynamics now! I’m second-tier! #Winning Green: With my newfound appreciation of spirituality, openmindness and connection to my heart, I’m surely almost enlightened. So, more relevantly to this discussion, blue can put on a green costume. One can adopt the ideals of progressivism while still lacking compassion for much of life. One can claim to want fairness and then create and follow a rigid, absolutist dogma of what fairness is. You aren’t seeing this because you defined blue in a narrower context than the other stages. The claim that someone can be green without integrating the prior stages hugely contradicts the fundamental principle you’ve taught- that people move in one direction up the spiral and pass through each stage, with each stage furthermore LEADING to the next, in the way dissatisfaction with materialism and a hurting heart unveil green. This direct a criticism may have sounded arrogant but I’m willing to risk that to express what feels like an important problem clearly.
  7. @brovakhiin hah, same. Looking at Chiang Mai? Loved it there. It seems like California just has the most green-oriented stuff in the U.S. if you can swing it. Surprised Ed no one has mentioned Boulder or any other Colorado towns.
  8. @Leo Gura making the green / blue distinction on the lines of attitude toward hierarchy, and pointing out that closed mindedness can still exist at Green, does make sense I guess and jives with my knowledge graph / web of beliefs. My only problem is that I can think of a lot of examples from my personal life, family and friends as well as public figures (I think the Cathy Newman example still applies) of people who are extremely passionate about a “Green” cause, but really don’t seem to have integrated what’s supposed to precede Green, eg rationality or any sort of orange phase. PETA is a good example of what I’m talking about. I’ve heard things from their former employees that sound practically red. How can someone be green but not have transcended former stages? It seems like more than just the trappings or dysfunction included in green. I’m guessing my confusion is partly not appreciating that people can be spread across colors, and also partly the remnants of orange in me projecting stuff onto green. For whatever reason it’s been something my mind’s been stuck on since even before this blue video, so thanks for the follow up.
  9. Can’t anything be used as a stage blue accessory once it’s held as an ideology or a paradigm pointing toward absolute truth? It does seem orange is “absolutist” with respect to rationality and materialism, no? In a similar vein, doesn’t the stage blue video ignore the potential for blue in non-religious contexts by focusing so heavily on Christian and Muslim examples of blue? It seemed like conflating religion with absolutism in general could cause you to call a lot of blue thinkers green thinkers. Example: radical feminism and its opponents. While the genuinely striving for equality brand of feminism seems green, isn’t the case of someone who adopts it as core to their identity and holds patriarchy theory as a dogma pretty blue? Isn’t the war between people like this and MRAs/Manosphere people a non-religious manifestation of blue vs. blue? Think Jordan Peterson vs Cathy Newman. Thanks for the video anyhow @Leo Gura. The initial spiral dynamics video was one of your most instructive for me, so looking forward to the upcoming elaboration videos.
  10. Don't think that consciousness or mindfulness increase in a linear fashion. Far from it. This is way too small a sample size on which to self-flagellate. These things ebb and flow a bunch on the journey
  11. Hi everybody. Over the last few months I've grown gradually more confused about how to go forward in my meditation practice, and I think this community is the best place I can turn for some quick advice. There are a ton of techniques I want to explore further - Do-Nothing, Mindfulness, Samatha practices, Self-Inquiry. However, at a recent Vipassana retreat (Goenka-style) I connected more with the Vipassana technique than perhaps any other technique. Goenka advocates Vipassana-only (albeit with a little Metta), and many people in those circles even go so far as saying different practices are like different wells for water - useless - and one must choose a single technique. To be honest, it seems dogmatic to me. My dilemma is that I don't feel experienced enough to select the right portion of what I learned on retreat (i.e. a certain amount of Vipassana via the method I learned, and doing sittings of strong determination regardless of type of meditation) and leave what I don't need. How can I trust my mind to make this decision? I like some alternatives I've stumbled on: I like the idea of incorporating self-inquiry into Vipassana, but I'm not sure how it should look on a detailed level. Body scan for a while and then switch to self-inquiry questioning / contemplation when the spirit moves me? @Leo Gura has mentioned this sort of thing, but if anyone can learn me on how this kind of combination would look or point me to a resource, that'd be great. Along these lines, 3 speed transmission (Kenneth Folk) sounds good, but I still feel unsure of the mechanisms of switching between / combining practices like this. Ultimately, I see the danger I'm in here of neglecting doing serious work by continuing to think about these things instead of just picking something and doing it. Hopefully, responses will be useful for more people than just me - how does one strike a balance between trying a ton of stuff and decisively picking a direction, without skirting real work, and without going down the wrong dogmatic road? Everyone's different, so even general principles speaking to this challenge (as opposed to an explicit recommendation) would be great. Thanks all.
  12. @StenneAnti-depressants absolutely help people out of some dark places. I see them as band-aids, with the potential to stop the bleeding in desperate times, but without the ability to cure any sort of root cause / "chemical imbalance." Whatever you do, do not go off of them cold-turkey. If you are able to go off of them, great, but do it gradually, intelligently and with the guidance of a mental health professional. Do not switch from SSRIs to mushrooms rapidly. That said, I'd encourage you to do your own research and listen to your mental health in contemplating what's been said here, because the stance that SSRIs are a waste (in many cases) is a valid one. They were discovered completely by accident in the 1950s, and as a result the hypothesis for how they work stemmed from their invention, rather than their invention stemming from a good theoretical understanding of how they should work. Scarily, we still don't really know how they work. For a very thorough history on this science, check this out: It definitely opened my eyes to how willy-nilly the great SSRI experiment is. As others said, natural cures, therapy / counseling, etc, are great ideas. Good luck!
  13. @Leo Gura Have you ever considered taking a video down because it no longer represents your views / teachings? Also, how much value do you think there is in the scientific and neuroscientific study of meditation, ala Dave Vago, Willoughby Britton, etc? The Dalai Lama seems to be a fan; do you see potential here beyond slightly opening Western minds?
  14. To be clear I’m all for contemplation. But brooding monkey mind loops of chatter masquerading as contemplation, especially when in a dark mood, are no good. I’m definitely guilty of this.