traveler

Very confused about a paragraph in Eckhart Tolle's "A new earth"

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So I'm done reading "A new earth" by Eckhart Tolle, and I really can't understand this part: 

THE FREQUENCY-HOLDERS

The outward movement into form does not express itself with equal intensity in all people. Some feel a strong urge to build, create, become involved, achieve, make an impact upon the world. If they are unconscious their ego will, of course, take over and use the energy of the outgoing cycle for its own purposes. This, however, also greatly reduces the flow of creative energy available to them and increasingly they need to rely on “efforting” to get what they want. If they are conscious, those people in whom the outward movement is strong will be highly creative. Others, after the natural expansion that comes with growing up has run its course, lead an outwardly unremarkable, seemingly more passive and relatively uneventful existence.

They are more inward looking by nature, and for them the outward movement into form is minimal. They would rather return home than go out. They have no desire to get strongly involved in or change the world. If they have any ambitions, they usually don’t go beyond finding something to do that gives them a degree of independence. Some of them find it hard to fit into this world. Some are lucky enough to find a protective niche where they can lead a relatively sheltered life, a job that provides them with a regular income or a small business of their own. Some may feel drawn toward living in a spiritual community or monastery. Others may become dropouts and live on the margins of society they feel they have little in common with. Some turn to drugs because they find living in this world too painful. Others eventually become healers or spiritual teachers, that is to say, teachers of Being. 

I don't get this part at all. Why would you turn to drugs after awakening? Why would this world be too painful to live in, after awakening to the truth? The way every spiritual teachers refers to the truth, is the peace and bliss that comes with it. Why would the world be too painful to live in, if you awaken to the truth of all there is. How can the Enlightenment, which is supposed to be "the end of suffering" in Buddhas words, lead to this.

Edited by traveler

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Because you have the amazing awakening experience and then you can have nothing. It is like a roller coaster, you have gone up to this amazing peak and then you go down....and down... and into a trough.

The thought of suicide has come up maybe 4 times since my initial awakening. There have been lengthy periods of depression for me especially when meditation unearths supressed trauma memories. Fortunatly for me when I hit rock bottom I always notice that my ego mind is running the show; depression is just the ego mind's reaction.

If you get good at catching the mind at work you can somewhat avoid these problems.

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You have to realize that Eckhart was suicidally depressed before his Awakening, this was probably just his biggest shadow.

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Note that he doesn't talk about enlightened people. He talks about everybody. In these two paragraphs he is not comparing the enlightened with the unenlightened. He compares the outgoing energy with the inward going energy. But these two energies are not correlated with the degree of consciousness. 


"Nothing happens next. This is it." 

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22 minutes ago, thesmileyone said:

Because you have the amazing awakening experience and then you can have nothing. It is like a roller coaster, you have gone up to this amazing peak and then you go down....and down... and into a trough.

The thought of suicide has come up maybe 4 times since my initial awakening. There have been lengthy periods of depression for me especially when meditation unearths supressed trauma memories. Fortunatly for me when I hit rock bottom I always notice that my ego mind is running the show; depression is just the ego mind's reaction.

If you get good at catching the mind at work you can somewhat avoid these problems.

I haven't really felt that good either after my awakening experience. It's beautiful in the moment of realising, but as soon as the ego takes over again, it's like you're an alien in this world. You know that you are everything and that everything happening in it's essence is nothing, but this realisation is pretty depressing for the ego. What I don't understand is the fact that the chapter is called "Frequency holders," but how can your frequency be high if your taking drugs to supress the pain of this world? I don't get it. 

Edited by traveler

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3 minutes ago, Barna said:

Note that he doesn't talk about enlightened people. He talks about everybody. In these two paragraphs he is not comparing the enlightened with the unenlightened. He compares the outgoing energy with the inward going energy. But these two energies are not correlated with the degree of consciousness. 

These are the frequency holders, supposedly enlightened people holding the frequency of the earth on a high level. If you're enlightened, and you're more inward looking by nature, then it seems like you are not fit at all for this world. But what I don't get is how you can be enlightened and still suffering? 

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25 minutes ago, traveler said:

If they are unconscious their ego will, of course, take over and use the energy of the outgoing cycle for its own purposes. This, however, also greatly reduces the flow of creative energy available to them and increasingly they need to rely on “efforting” to get what they want. If they are conscious, those people in whom the outward movement is strong will be highly creative. Others, after the natural expansion that comes with growing up has run its course, lead an outwardly unremarkable, seemingly more passive and relatively uneventful existence.

If he would talk about enlightened people he wouldn't talk about them being unconscious and their ego taking over and relying on "efforting" to get what they want. These are clearly the attributes of people who are still asleep. 


"Nothing happens next. This is it." 

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I would suggest becoming enlightened and then see what happens - don't put the cart before the horse.

Also, becoming conscious of what you are is not the same as becoming conscious of what suffering is. The former is an absolute insight, the second one is relative.

It seems one can be enlightened and still suffer - but that's a problem for the enlightened you :) But you are suffering anyways so why not give it a shot


My YouTube Channel: https://bit.ly/2PSLrNb

 

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2 minutes ago, Barna said:

If he would talk about enlightened people he wouldn't talk about them being unconscious and their ego taking over and relying on "efforting" to get what they want. These are clearly the attributes of people who are still asleep. 

" Others may become dropouts and live on the margins of society they feel they have little in common with. Some turn to drugs because they find living in this world too painful. Others eventually become healers or spiritual teachers, that is to say, teachers of Being. "

Why would he talk about others becoming spiritual teachers in the sentence right after the people turning to drugs sentence? Try reading the whole bit again, doesn't it seem a bit confusing to you? He also talks about someone being drawn to spiritual communities and monestary's.

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Yes, as I said, he's is talking about everybody. He compares the outgoing energy with the inward going energy, regardless of the level of consciousness. 

But I agree that the title of the chapter is misleading. 


"Nothing happens next. This is it." 

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9 minutes ago, Juan Cruz Giusto said:

I would suggest becoming enlightened and then see what happens - don't put the cart before the horse.

Also, becoming conscious of what you are is not the same as becoming conscious of what suffering is. The former is an absolute insight, the second one is relative.

It seems one can be enlightened and still suffer - but that's a problem for the enlightened you :) But you are suffering anyways so why not give it a shot

Enlightenment isn't really that easy to attain, as there are many years of egoic conditioning deep inside us all. I think a lot of people would have done it if it was that easy. I've had enlightening experiences, and these questions would probably seem very insignificant from an enlightened perspective. But there's no where else to go, we won't go anywhere after enlightenment, so It's a pretty valid question in my opinion. Why would you turn to drugs after enlightenment? Can you answer that question?

 

Edited by traveler

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@traveler No, because I'm not enlightened. But I can suspect that because the person the person needs some personal work to do. Enlightenment is just knowing what you are, absolutely. It seems that people that are enlightened suffer less, so taking drugs might be an uncommon phenomenon for awakened people. Anyways, Osho was addicted, Nisargadatta was a smoker, Alan Watts was an alcoholic.


My YouTube Channel: https://bit.ly/2PSLrNb

 

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1 hour ago, traveler said:

These are the frequency holders, supposedly enlightened people holding the frequency of the earth on a high level. If you're enlightened, and you're more inward looking by nature, then it seems like you are not fit at all for this world. But what I don't get is how you can be enlightened and still suffering? 

You still suffer but you don't attach to it.

Toothache still occurs for example. But you don't attach to it. You don't think "I have toothache".

 

Quote

The Direct Path is a route of nondual inquiry that leads to the recognition

of yourself as awareness, beauty and love. It is not a goal of the Direct

Path to transform you into a person to whom only pleasant things hap-

pen. Instead of this phenomenal goal, the Direct Path has a deeper, more

radical goal. The Direct Path reveals awareness to be the very nature of

the person. Awareness is prior to the person, so it can’t be possessed by

the person. Nondual inquiry seeks to discover and clarify this nature.

In doing so, it subjects the very perspective of the person to deep and

radical scrutiny.

Sometimes nondual paths are described as freeing one from suffering.

They succeed admirably at this, but not by giving you more favorable

experiences. Nondual inquiry does not work by retaining the person but

eradicating the suffering. It is much more thorough than that. What hap-

pens through nondual inquiry is that you come experientially to realize

the truth of yourself as awareness, brilliant clarity and global love, in

which there is neither suffering nor personhood.

 

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1 hour ago, traveler said:

Why would you turn to drugs after awakening?

He wasn't talking about awake people. He was talking about inwardly-oriented people.

Research shows that about half of heroin addicts and alcoholics are people in search of awakening, but not knowing that what they seek is God, they find a pseudo-God in the heroin or alcohol.

So what Tolle is saying is that.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Smoking is a different matter. It does not kill anybody. At the most it can take two or three years off your life. But it is your life, you are not killing anybody else. You are simply settling for seventy years instead of seventy-three. This is purely your personal business. Enlightenment cannot be affected by taking the smoke in and throwing it out. It is just silly, it is nothing like sin. Alcohol can disturb before enlightenment, because it can make you more unconscious - that’s its whole purpose. Your consciousness is burdened so much with anxieties, worries, anguish, that you take a drink and feel good because your consciousness goes to sleep. Hence, before enlightenment, any kind of intoxicant is absolutely to be dropped. It affects your consciousness and drags it downwards towards darker realms of unconsciousness. And the whole effort of the seeker is to pull the darker parts out into the light, so this is just the reverse process. But after enlightenment you are free. There is no problem; now no intoxicant can make your consciousness drop from the height it has reached. You can enjoy intoxicants if you like, there is no danger. But ordinarily, all the enlightened people in the past have not used intoxicants after their enlightenment. Gautam Buddha was asked once, “Do you think taking something alcoholic would be a disturbance to your achievement?” He said, “No, but if I start drinking, the problem is for my followers who are not enlightened. Seeing me drink, they will say, ‘Aha! Isn’t it groovy to be a follower of Gautam Buddha?’” But I don’t want you to remain in darkness about anything. 

 


One’s center is not one’s center, it is the center of the whole. 

And the ego-center is one’s center.

That is the only difference, but that is a vast difference.- 

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@traveler I'm reading this same book! It's sooooo good, he is very simple and practical, love his teachings :x


"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Shakespeare

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@traveler

Why are you so concerned about the words of tolle what ever he thinks believes? 

Just focus on the practice that's alone one should be keen to learn from the enlightened. And also only from the masters who followed certain path practice to attain enlightenment. 

Books of people who attained enlightenment accidentally with out any effort due to depression or other reasons may not be of much help. 

Tolle missed to tell many have become story tellers book sellers a way of making good money. Nothing wrong with making money though but what's the point/use for the readers  😊😊😊

 

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@thesmileyone are you enlightened? Just curious to know the difference between I am having toothache and its painful and There is toothache and its painful? 

 

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@traveler Maybe he means people who has started to awaken but are not "fully" awakened yet. 

I got very sensitive to peoples energies at first. I got very emotional and it was just a tough time to deal with people in general. I wouldn't be surprised if people that is dealing with the same thing might use alcohol or other drugs to dampen the senses.


He has no will of his own.
He dwells in reality,
and lets all illusions go.

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