I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[Bauer1977]

Hey Winterknight..... I seem to really be in a good place, but I want to get your perspective because I am unclear if what I see is what you see. 

In Self-Inquiry I have been able to get past the intrusion of the small i and its expectations. I have been left with the realization that there is absolutely nothing to do.... I mean at all. Every act in the world, big or small, every idea and even every thought appears to be God's will. I appear to truly be nothing more than an observer and have seemingly handed over any idea of my individual will to God. My conclusion is that I should embrace and appreciate the positive, and simply accept and transcend the negative as a necessary part of the illusion... and life will simply play out as it does. It feels right, but it also seems too good to be true. Is really that easy? 16 years of pain and suffering on this spiritual journey, and it's that easy? I don't know, it feels right but it also feels too good to be true and somehow wrong... maybe it just seems too simple..... thoughts?

[FoxFoxFox]

@winterknight Well effortlessness is directly observed at various levels depending on one's understanding. Everybody breathes effortlessly. Everybody sees, hearse, touches, tastes, smells effortlessly, the thoughts arise by themselves effortlessly, and in contact with the body create emotions - again effortlessly. At no point does anybody go and say "I need to taste better, better put more in effort in my taste buds!" 

And peace is always there - though i think stillness is a better word. It's the same stillness in deep sleep. i could erroneously say that it is 'my' nature that is peaceful. but why would i do that? Of course it's my nature, whose nature could it be? Actually, to emphasize so much on the "I" aspect is the cause for all this confusion.

And since the separations are all illusion, all this extends to the world, which turns out to not be an illusion at the deepest level. Maya is Nirvana, i feel. 

[winterknight]

18 minutes ago, Bauer1977 said:

Hey Winterknight..... I seem to really be in a good place, but I want to get your perspective because I am unclear if what I see is what you see. 

In Self-Inquiry I have been able to get past the intrusion of the small i and its expectations. I have been left with the realization that there is absolutely nothing to do.... I mean at all. Every act in the world, big or small, every idea and even every thought appears to be God's will. I appear to truly be nothing more than an observer and have seemingly handed over any idea of my individual will to God. My conclusion is that I should embrace and appreciate the positive, and simply accept and transcend the negative as a necessary part of the illusion... and life will simply play out as it does. It feels right, but it also seems too good to be true. Is really that easy? 16 years of pain and suffering on this spiritual journey, and it's that easy? I don't know, it feels right but it also feels too good to be true and somehow wrong... maybe it just seems too simple..... thoughts?

It is that easy. 

7 minutes ago, FoxFoxFox said:

@winterknight Well effortlessness is directly observed at various levels depending on one's understanding. Everybody breathes effortlessly. Everybody sees, hearse, touches, tastes, smells effortlessly, the thoughts arise by themselves effortlessly, and in contact with the body create emotions - again effortlessly. At no point does anybody go and say "I need to taste better, better put more in effort in my taste buds!" 

And peace is always there - though i think stillness is a better word. It's the same stillness in deep sleep. i could erroneously say that it is 'my' nature that is peaceful. but why would i do that? Of course it's my nature, whose nature could it be? Actually, to emphasize so much on the "I" aspect is the cause for all this confusion.

And since the separations are all illusion, all this extends to the world, which turns out to not be an illusion at the deepest level. Maya is Nirvana, i feel. 

Like I said in the beginning, if there is peace, what does it matter?

If you sense the stillness, stay with the stillness. Why all this worry then about the body or mind suffering? Stay with the stillness -- then where is the suffering? It is only when your thought strays from the stillness that you have all these issues about "dark nights of the mind" and all that.

[Bauer1977]

18 minutes ago, winterknight said:

It is that easy. 

Well, that's amazing. BOOM!!! Is all that suffering to get here really necessary?

Edited December 20, 2018 by Bauer1977

[winterknight]

15 minutes ago, Bauer1977 said:

Well, that's amazing. BOOM!!! Is all that suffering to get here really necessary?

Did the suffering affect anybody real, or just an illusion? And if it just affected it an illusion, did anyone actually suffer?

[winterknight]

2 hours ago, Winter said:

@winterknight Do you have the belief that you need to eat to survive? Why do you eat? Why do you keep up with this narrative of being a biological human being that needs to eat and breathe while you are not? Same for breathing. Why do you breathe? Are you addicted to breathing?

Why do you answer questions? Why do you do any activity that is not trans-egoic? Aren't you assuming reality by doing those things?

That's a lot of questions but I believe the answer to all of them is pretty much the same.

Oh? And what is that answer?

1 hour ago, 9 said:

Are you vegetarian / vegan? Do you think it has anything to do with spiritual development / awakening process?

I am vegetarian. Some mild connection with the spiritual process may be there -- vegetarian food may be more peace-inducing for the mind. Hard for me to say since I've never really compared closely...

Edited December 20, 2018 by winterknight

[Bauer1977]

34 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Did the suffering affect anybody real, or just an illusion? And if it just affected it an illusion, did anyone actually suffer?

I know what your getting at.... but even as an illusion, yeah, the pain and suffering affected my life/experience very deeply. Sure, I can acknowledge the fact of the illusion now, and say no, it wasn't really real.... but I was trapped by the illusion at the time, and it felt real at the time. very real. I can easily see now that it was necessary and it was all God's will. I just wonder if there is an easier way for people to come to understand their true nature.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Bauer1977

[winterknight]

9 minutes ago, Bauer1977 said:

I know what your getting at.... but even as an illusion, yeah, the pain and suffering affected my life/experience very deeply. Sure, I can acknowledge the fact of the illusion now, and say no, it wasn't really real.... but I was trapped by the illusion at the time, and it felt real at the time. very real. I can easily see now that it was necessary and it was all God's will. I just wonder if there is an easier way for people to come to understand their true nature.

if you're bothered by this, it's because there is still a residual mental pattern identifying with the "illusion." Illusions are illusions -- i.e. they don't really exist. You still consider yourself to have been an individual and had a history. But if, as you've said before, I is God, how can that be the case?

"Even as an illusion" doesn't work... that is clinging.

If an actor has played his part in a movie where he seemed to get hurt, do we believe the actor suffered? Do we wish the actor would "wake up" out of his character faster?

Edited December 20, 2018 by winterknight

[SoonHei]

@Bauer1977 are you now speaking from and abiding as the absolute most of/all the time? \

and what ultimately led you to this understanding .. ?

[SoonHei]

2 minutes ago, winterknight said:

If an actor has played his part in a movie where he seemed to get hurt, do we believe the actor suffered? Do we wish the actor would "wake up" out of his character faster?

so elegant <3 thanks 

[winterknight]

7 minutes ago, Winter said:

I'm here to get one from an enlightened person 

Mine could only be based on speculations from the behavior of other people. I have a lot of work to do before reaching that place on a practical level.

What's your answer?

My answer is to see who the "I" is and then you will know the answer to those questions in the only way they can truly be answered. All the other answers are misleading. 

[SOUL]

8 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Illusions are illusions -- i.e. they don't really exist.

Illusions do exist, they are illusions and illusions are a misperception of what is, not a nonexistence of what is.

[winterknight]

26 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Illusions do exist, they are illusions and illusions are a misperception of what is, not a nonexistence of what is.

This is just a limitation of words. The idea that there is an illusion at all is illusory. This cannot be understood with the intellect, however.

26 minutes ago, Winter said:

The I can be one, can be nothing, can be infinite or whatever. In all those cases though there's no such thing as an "I" or a physical body. Just nothing or something that believes it exist.

Why do you fall in the illusion of doing things to maintain that physical "fake" body? Why play that narrative?

Do you just not have the answer? That's fine too.

No, that's an intellectual answer. What I meant is that you need to follow the path and do self-inquiry and then you will understand the answer yourself.

If I speak the answer in words, you won't understand, but ok: it appears to you that I'm doing these things, but in fact it cannot be said that I am doing these things, and it cannot be said that these things are being done at all. It cannot be said that there is a narrative that someone is "playing,"  despite whatever appears to you.

[SOUL]

8 minutes ago, winterknight said:

This is just a limitation of words. The idea that there is an illusion at all is illusory. This cannot be understood with the intellect, however.

I actually do understand it, you mistakenly understand illusion as to mean something 'doesn't exist' when it means 'a mistaken perception'. So ironically your perception of illusion is mistaken, it's not the words that are limited in this, it's your perception.

Edited December 20, 2018 by SOUL

[winterknight]

7 minutes ago, SOUL said:

I actually do understand it, you mistakenly understand illusion as to mean something 'doesn't exist' when it means 'a mistaken perception'. So ironically your perception of illusion is mistaken, it's not the words that are limited in this, it's your perception.

Yes, I'm suggesting that your understanding of illusion is missing something. If you're interested in discussing this further to deepen your understanding, I'm willing.

But if you're just interested in telling me how right you are, then I'm happy not to continue this conversation.

[Anton Rogachevski]

6 minutes ago, SOUL said:

I actually do understand it, you mistakenly understand illusion as to mean something 'doesn't exist' when it means 'a mistaken perception'. So ironically your perception of illusion is mistaken, it's not the words that are limited in this, it's your perception.

Don't teach an old man to cough.

I'm afraid he's right, you are giving reality to the concept of "illusion", while there is such phenomena as "thought", it's content is a dictionary circle jerk leading nowhere. There is a dream story, but it can't be said the jello monster in your dream exists, can it?

[Forestluv]

@winterknight Is what you are getting at with illusion in the same context of how, in the strictest sense, thinking/imagining any thing is a step too far?

[winterknight]

Just now, Serotoninluv said:

@winterknight Is what you are getting at with illusion in the same context of how, in the strictest sense, thinking/imagining any thing is a step too far?

Yes. "That there is an appearance" is itself a thought, and one based on a separate sense of I, which is also a thought. Cut the second thing and you cut the first.

The ego is the categorizer and namer, and its categories are all based on the duality of perceiver & perception, of "I" and "not-I." If the ego is recognized to be false, all the names and categories -- including the very idea of "thing" or "appearance" -- must all be seen as false as well.

And so Silence prevails.

[Bauer1977]

1 hour ago, winterknight said:

if you're bothered by this, it's because there is still a residual mental pattern identifying with the "illusion." Illusions are illusions -- i.e. they don't really exist. You still consider yourself to have been an individual and had a history. But if, as you've said before, I is God, how can that be the case?

"Even as an illusion" doesn't work... that is clinging.

If an actor has played his part in a movie where he seemed to get hurt, do we believe the actor suffered? Do we wish the actor would "wake up" out of his character faster?

It's not that I am bothered by it, it was what it was. And there is no doubt that there is more work to do. But there is a feeling that I am very close to where I want to be. And I don't feel the actor analogy works in this instance, because the process to Enlightenment is necessary in order to escape the illusion, and it is a struggle that feels very real to anyone who is lost within the illusion. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be any reason for you to offer advice to on this chat board. I think virtual reality is a better example. If a person believes they are going to get stepped on by a giant in a virtual world, the emotional response is genuine, even though the threat is not. And when that emotional response is owned, that's what matters to that person at that time, illusion or not.

Why I ask is because I don't think I can help others with their struggles if I deny the memory of my Ego perspective and my own experience. For almost everyone in this world the suffering is very real, and they can't simply choose to ignore it or pretend to suddenly be Enlightened, and act as though the knowledge of life being an illusion will bring them relief. With my own experience I have found it very frustrating at times when spiritually advanced people talk in terms that are unrelatable, and only from the perspective they now have, so their words can only truly be understood by other spiritually advanced people. As though they have forgotten what it was like to believe that you are real, and what it was like to deal with their own struggles in trying to understand things properly. There is real value in being relatable. The Red Book gives Carl Jung's work so much more value. It humanized him, It made him to be just like anyone else. Prior to it being released in the early 2000's, he just seemed like a genius that had access to God's mind which allowed him to know things that would be impossible for anyone else.

So once one understands the fact of the illusion, I don't think there is value in pretending that it no longer matters. Because for almost everyone else alive, its the only thing that matters. And their only way out if it, is to acquire the understanding they require in order to change their perspective.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Bauer1977

[sword]

How long did it take to go from your first glimpse of the realization of union, to permanently grounding yourself in the realization? And, do you still feel like there is more to do?

Has your ego reconstructed itself, even though you are now aware of its nature? If so, how has it changed?

Is everything after enlightenment just play?

What will you do now that you are enlightened? create a life purpose?

Are you going to continue to self-actualize other facets of your life?