Spiral Dynamics Stage Green Examples Mega-Thread

[Alexop]

2 hours ago, aurum said:

That's actually an extremely common objection from SD Green people.

Especially when they see indigenous, Purple folks down at the bottom of said hierarchy.

The mind virus of flattening hierarchy and equality. I feel so sad for these people, because they live in cognitive dissonace. They believe something that will never be possible.

[aurum]

Green take on evolution:

 

[RendHeaven]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

Green take on evolution:

 

Great points by her overall.

Her emphasis on nuance and synergistic webs is strong.

What makes it green is her explicit downplaying of brutality. She's refusing to see the natural world as "ruthless," and views such a lens as reductionist or incomplete thus disposable.

The problem with this is that it ends up being a denial of survival (thus, truth).

High-level synergy and cooperation is not distinct from individual competition and dog-eat-dog dynamics. They are necessarily one and the same, for profound reasons.

If she had the ability to respond to my comment here, she would likely say something like: "I'm not denying survival or brutality, I just think it doesn't tell the full story. I've found a more comprehensive lens"

Yes, symbiosis will have you seriously questioning the idea that the natural world is a winner-takes-all simulation. Even as the rationalist scientist tries to collapse symbiosis into "mutual self interest," you understand that he's not seriously contending with the ramifications of systems-level harmony. You see into his blind spot. From there, you work to de-pedestalize survival and brutality as a way to push back against a stage orange/darwinian culture which refuses to acknowledge benevolent dynamics in nature. To that end, survival and brutality are but a tertiary concern.

but if you actually understood nature, you could not take that position. Even with infinite benevolence, the engine of nature is inextricably dog-eat-dog. This is not a bug, but a feature - as Leo would say.

The highest lens would go beyond survival, but without downplaying it. In fact, the highest lens would revere survival and notice its intelligent omnipresence. If you only cared about truth, you would quickly realize that love and survival are metaphysically identical. Downplaying or willingly overlooking survival (acting like it's not important or doesn't exist) is an affront to love.

The idea that we could, or should, or always have cooperated selflessly for purely wholesome or benevolent aims is a staple fantasy of stage green. Or even sneakier - green will admit that "in the past" we come from bloodshed, but that now we are in a new era where we can wholly opt-out of such cruel dynamics.

Benevolent cooperation is real, and it rests atop a foundation of blood and death and self-preservation. It was never about selflessness VS selfishness. Both are two sides of the same coin: a singular superstructure. This finally reconciles orange and green without self-contradiction.

Edited July 8 by RendHeaven
added more detail

[aurum]

@RendHeaven Well said.

You are wise in the ways of the Spiral