Gligorije

How is consciousness not brain activity?

46 posts in this topic

11 hours ago, RichardY said:

@Outer

Perhaps a bit like a Beatles song, "Within You, Without You."

Well I guess with Gestalt. Appearance does not exist. Might be wrong though, not sure how to think it through more deeply.

04vase.jpg

With exist I mean absolutely, it will never cease to exist.


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@Gligorije All you have of reality is sights, sounds, sensations, smells, tastes, thoughts. You never experience a 3D material object (the brain, for example) directly. Therefore there can be no evidence for the existence of an external three-dimensional universe.

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23 hours ago, Outer said:

Inside consciousness =/= consciousness. Appearance is not consciousness, it does not exist.

You are misleading people about things you do not fully understand yet.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You are misleading people about things you do not fully understand yet.

I know that absolute truth is consciousness, awareness.

Appearance is not consciousness, and it does not exist absolutely. Leo will perish, so will everything else in this universe. So will all appearances, they change. Yet what can exist absolutely, thus never change is consciousness. Consciousness is all that can be known - absolutely.

Edited by Outer

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Just now, Gligorije said:

@Outer @Leo Gura So consciousness is just a synonym for god? 

I think most people equate god with some higher being, any conscious being can only absolutely know consciousness. That includes god.


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1 hour ago, Gligorije said:

@Outer @Leo Gura So consciousness is just a synonym for god? 

Stop and just look around the room for a minute. Everything you're seeing is consciousness.

That is not molecules or atoms. That's consciousness. Consciousness can take on an infinite number of colors, shapes, and qualities.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Stop and just look around the room for a minute. Everything you're seeing is consciousness.

That is not molecules or atoms. That's consciousness. Consciousness can take on an infinite number of colors, shapes, and qualities.

I guess we will agree to disagree.


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@Leo Gura

7 hours ago, Outer said:

I guess we will agree to disagree.

It's not an agree, disagree situation. It either an impasse, Or one or both of you are wrong.

Looking for the couch potato version of existence, maybe enlightenment, but not too fussed over that. Not the Alice in Wonderland version, or Shaolin Monk version. Yet.

Not keen on "The best of all possible Worlds". Apparently Leibniz is ridiculed in Voltaire's Candide, so probably will give that a listen. Feel that Leibniz's premises might be right, it's the conclusion I'm suspect of.

From Wikipedia Leibnizian Monadology

This theory leads to:

1. Idealism, since it denies things in themselves (besides monads) and multiplies them in different points of view. Monads are “perpetual living mirrors of the universe.”

2. Metaphysical optimism, through the principle of sufficient reason, developed as follows:

a) Everything exists according to a reason (by the axiom "Nothing arises from nothing");

b) Everything which exists has a sufficient reason to exist;

c) Everything which exists is better than anything nonexistent (by the first point: since it is more rational, it also has more reality), and, consequently, it is the best possible being in the best of all possible worlds (by the axiom: "That which contains more reality is better than that which contains less reality").

-------------------------------

No idea if Spinoza would provide a better explanation of thing(s)? Or if another philosopher or poet... is more apt. I find the living nature of Leibniz more actual, than a vanilla neutral monism, where things are neither physical or mental, but potentially either. The phenomena of consciousness is not an activity of the "brain" that would lead to absurdism, or "return of the living dead" property dualism.

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Posted (edited)

The mind-stream is referring to the stream of consciousness.  So to understand our mind, we need to understand our consciousness.  Basically, there are three terms of consciousness: -

1.    Prevailing Consciousness (conscious mind)

2.    Subtle Consciousness (subconscious mind)

3.    Stilled Consciousness (enlightened mind)

 

Prevailing Consciousness

It is regarded as a working consciousness or a mind-in-command i.e. the kind of mind that can lead, take charge, concentrate, make decision and convey action.  In other words, it is a prevailing conscious mind that makes judgments and plans.  Basically, the prevailing mind consciousness is closely related to the physical body or more specifically, the brain.  This means there would be a biological clock being attached within it i.e. there would be duration for staying awake and for resting.  Without the brain, there would be no prevailing mind consciousness in existence.   Therefore, brain is a necessary prerequisite for any prevailing mind consciousness to exist; without it, the prevailing mind consciousness would be impossible. 

Subtle consciousness

As a human, the traits of consciousness are not within the physical body per se.  Instead, it is the physical body that is within the traits of consciousness with the mind functioning as the forerunner of all things.  Subtle mind consciousness is somehow independent from the physical body.  This is because when the physical body is being switch-off temporarily the subtle mind consciousness would continue to work unpretentiously as in the experience of lucid dreaming.  And all objects or matters as observed by the mind consciousness must transpire within the purview of the group traits of consciousness.  This includes all the projections and reflections of reality or fallacy being identified and experienced by the respective mind consciousnesses. 

In fact, the group traits of consciousness would perform like a powerful microscope and telescope whereby nothing can be discerned outside its horizon.  Moreover, the human physical body is merely an interim containment of certain blueprint of vibrational frequencies.  Basically, humans are the end result of a certain unique frequential pattern of consciousness – a wave of collated high and low vibrations that subsequently bring forth a conflation of mind and body.  The synergy of subtle mind consciousness could pervade and transpire into infinite spacetime and across different planes of existence.  In fact, both our mind and body are varying vibrational frequencies that turn up as decoders for the projected traits of consciousness.  The fluctuating vibrational frequencies of all things are just in every corner of spacetime. 

Stilled Consciousness

A stilled mind is a balanced consciousness that is in a state of equanimity.  It is luminous and highly commanding and even sharper than a sword that can pierce through the time stream, space and planes of existence.  It is also known as a higher mind with the prevailing mind consciousness liberating from the thoughts churned out by the subtle mind consciousness.  This liberation from thought identification to thought observation is called the experience of so-called enlightenment.   It is crucial for one to develop the innate mind consciousness via expanding the frequency span to an uppermost level all the time while sustaining in the human realm.  This is because the stilled mind consciousness has higher vibrational frequencies than the conventional mind consciousness and it has a vast potentiality or capability of projecting the future destiny of individuals.

 

Edited by Naturalist

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Posted (edited)

Not fully read this post but the confusion arises from the lack of understanding, or mixing up things, of "awareness" and "consciousness". I'd say within my terminology that the consciousness is very much a brain activity. I use the term "awareness" for this purpose. 


Staying in your scope, I'd say consciousness is a brain activity. What isn't a brain activity is your awareness. Being aware of your body/mind.

Yeah this never helps any. So that's why I don't like to stick or bitch about terminology. It's like dog chasing it's own tail. So that's the way how I explain things:

Imagine a tank. Like this thicc iron tanks you use on wars. This tank has a driver. Driver controls the tank. There're many tanks. There're many drivers. But this all tanks and drivers exist in one place. There's no fuzzy or something fancy going on. Literally, It's the universe where It all exists.

 

Your body/mind is the tank. The "consciousness" is set of skills that tank driver has. If tank driver lacks some skills, he may unable to understand or do things on operations etc. The whole thing happening in awareness, the universe.

 

Edit: Bonus, go to a gym, you know, there're lot of mirrors on gyms. stand up and look into mirror in between reps. Try to acknowledge where's that screen, the vision of yours comes from, as you look your body on mirror. I'm sure this experience will give you some insights about this. Focus on where the hell might your vision be in this universe.

Edited by non_nothing

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You guys bullshit on here way too much. Stop speculating about things you clearly do not understand.

Be here with an open mind and ready to learn, not to spout your pet theories about consciousness.

You are being told how it is. Don't complicate it. Just open your mind to the teaching. This is not a topic to debate or even discuss.

Everything is consciousness. Period. End of story. Stop wasting time arguing about it.

It's your job to have a direct experience of this truth.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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34 minutes ago, non_nothing said:

Your body/mind is the tank. The "consciousness" is set of skills that tank driver has. If tank driver lacks some skills, he may unable to understand or do things on operations etc. The whole thing happening in awareness, the universe.

If the whole thing is happening in awareness, "the universe". That would mean something is being aware. Which would mean Deism, a form of absurdism.

-----------------------------

@Naturalist When you say attributes of consciousness what do you mean by that? 

You make a distinction of mind consciousness. Are you in affect arguing for Substance Dualism ala Descartes. If so why have the duality? Why not try and reduce to Monism?

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys bullshit on here way too much. Stop speculating about things you clearly do not understand.

Be here with an open mind and ready to learn, not to spout your pet theories about consciousness.

You are being told how it is. Don't complicate it. Just open your mind to the teaching. This is not a topic to debate or even discuss.

Everything is consciousness. Period. End of story. Stop wasting time arguing about it.

It's your job to have a direct experience of this truth.

If everything is consciousness, that includes ego, a rock, emotions.

Ego exists then - absolutely, so does rocks and emotions. If we conclude that consciousness exists absolutely.

Good grief.

Create a new video stating that rocks are conscious. :)

By the way, this is compatible with materialism.

Brains are conscious/consciousness/!

Edited by Outer

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5 minutes ago, Outer said:

Create a new video stating that rocks are conscious. :)

It's a little bit more like "Conscious are rocks."

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Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, hundreth said:

It's a little bit more like "Conscious are rocks."

I'm tired of these word diarrheas. All I know absolutely is consciousness. I know that there's appearance but that it doesn't exist absolutely or is absolutely true. Appearance changes, consciousness does not.

Close your eyes and look around the room, is the non-existent room still consciousness?

Edited by Outer

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On 05. 08. 2018. at 10:37 PM, Leo Gura said:

"The brain" is made out of consciousness. End of story. It's as simple as that.

Where else have you seen a brain but inside your consciousness?

Really look! It is impossible for anything to exist outside your consciousness.

Try to name one thing which contradicts what I said. And notice you are wrong each time.

I think that you mixes up some therms and understanding here... the brain is not maid out of counciousness, the perception and our experience of somw brain is made out of counciousness not the brain itself, sou youre wringly atributing the propertis of your own experience to the outside world witch is false...

It is imposibile for me to percieve anything without my counciousnes, but it is wrong to conclude that nothing exist without my counciousness.

Youre making conclusions in the way that you always put you, particualy your experience (or experience of counciousness) as the one and only valid reference point, and one and only ,,mesurement tool of truth"... i day that a first person experience is not valid at all-i can have an experience of my wings, and of course thata not the apsolute truth, also my experience of the brain is not right, it is the rendered ,,version" of the outside reality or particulary of the brain witch is not evan close to the complete aspects and properties of the brain, that can as example be caught with instruments but not with my experience...

One of many proves that back up what I say is that the brain, as an object in the outside world that really exists continues to exist evan when you and your counciousnes goes in the other room, when you dies and so on... other people see it and it still exist no matter how many people look at it and go away and come back and so on, also instrument can by they properties proove it, just take a vide camera, film a brain, take every lifw away for five minutes, let the camera run, come back, there is a tape of the brain existing avan as we were away...

Conclusion, youre contributing the perception of the brain, and your experience of that perception of the brain, to the brain it self, and on this false assumption youre basing youre whope teachings and all of your knowledge and videos...

 

Now you can answer like: how do youre know that there is a brain if youre not there, does the brain trully exist if you dont look at it, where doea this brain exist and so on... but thats running in circles based on the first false assumption that is not questioned or proven...

Its imposibile for anything to percive and experience without counciousnes (for a human) but this does not prove that nothing exists or that there is no material world.

Machins percive without counciousnes, evan does the human body, there are many perceptions and informations and proceses that take place that we are not aware and councious off, however this is not the point, prove me wrong and pls answer... i really put my strongest doubts in here with the hope that i will be debunked and that nonduality can win heh, peace ;)

 

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1 minute ago, Outer said:

I'm tired of these word diarrheas. All I know absolutely is consciousness. I know that there's appearance but that it doesn't exist absolutely or is absolutely true. Appearance changes, consciousness does not.

It's a conceptual distinction. I should have been clearer. That rocks don't posses the quality of consciousness. More that consciousness takes on the form of rock. 

Sounds like we're on the same page though.

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2 minutes ago, hundreth said:

It's a conceptual distinction. I should have been clearer. That rocks don't posses the quality of consciousness. More that consciousness takes on the form of rock. 

Sounds like we're on the same page though.

I don't care about rocks in this context because it's not truth when truth is defined to be absolutely so. Nor does it exist if existence is defined to be absolutely so. Truth and existence is not rocks. That's delusion. Rocks do not exist nor are they true.


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