Path to enlightenment don't have to be painful

[now is forever]

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Try it and see. That's the only way you know anything at all.

You cannot know ahead of time how the Absolute is Absolute. But it's Absolute, and you'll know it immediately once you're in it. How is that possible? This cannot be explained to you because you are asleep.

Of course it's possible to misinterpret psychedelic trips. Very possible. The tendency for self-deception is ALWAYS at work in everything you do. Self-deception is even possible after enlightenment. There is no escaping the possibility of self-deception, ever, so long as you have a mind.

The question you should be more concerned about is: "What if my current thinking is self-deception? What if I'm having all these doubts about this path because I'm asleep? What if I'm questioning psychedelics because I'm really just too afraid and lazy to try them?"

ok, what about the other way round? what about questioning them while taking them?

i know that you can get some insights, because i took psychedelics in my youth and had near death experience. but nothingness experience you can have without it. even infinity is something you can experience without them (maybe only by taking them in advance) but at some point isn't it better to stop? a lot of my friends had a really rough time, because they couldn't stop or they got lost on the way. i stopped taking drugs when i turned 18. and still am happy i did. though i never forget what i was able to see.

all i want to say is: the craving mind can be delusional, too. 

[Leo Gura]

@now is forever Questioning will happen naturally when you are in the middle of the trip. But it's not the kind of "questioning" you're talking about. The "questioning" you're doing right now is a sort of fear-based skepticism. That's not true questioning. True questioning is totally open and curious. Fear of being wrong shouldn't be on your mind. It's the ego-mind which fears being wrong.

The psychedelic will reveal truth to you in an organic, effortless manner. You can doubt it afterwards if you like. If you try to apply fear-based skepticism in the middle of the trip, you are not surrendering, and you will likely have a bad trip. Psychedelics punish arrogance. And fear-based skepticism -- despite how it might seem to you -- is arrogance.

Sounds like your aversion to psychedelics is fear-based.

For me, stopping is not a problem or an issue. I have no attachment to psychedelics. I use them like a tool, in moderation.

[now is forever]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@now is forever Questioning will happen naturally when you are in the middle of the trip. But it's not the kind of "questioning" you're talking about. The "questioning" you're doing right now is a sort of fear-based skepticism. That's not true questioning. True questioning is totally open and curious. Fear of being wrong shouldn't be on your mind. It's the ego-mind which fears being wrong.

The psychedelic will reveal truth to you in an organic, effortless manner. You can doubt it afterwards if you like. If you try to apply fear-based skepticism in the middle of the trip, you are not surrendering, and you will likely have a bad trip. Psychedelics punish arrogance. And fear-based skepticism -- despite how it might seem to you -- is arrogance.

i don't see that the same way. because i didn't have fear taking them. i only questioned them afterwards - and i have no curiosity to take them again. i would even not stand in the way if i had children taking psychedelics, i maybe would even help them in finding good quality stuff. i would just tell them to be careful and that they should question doing them, so no it's not fear. it's compassion for others.

either way i would not tell them to take them, everyone has to decide that for themselves.

Edited June 9, 2018 by now is forever

[Leo Gura]

@now is forever Your experience with psychedelics was only the tip of the iceberg of what is there.

It's like you dipped your toe in the ocean, saw a shark, and ran away forever.

The ocean is still there to be explored.

If you don't want to explore it, that's fine.

[Solace]

And even monks and advanced yogis are not enlightened after a lifetime of practice. This is because they did not know about the spiritual heart, and how it is essential to connect there to become source! This is sooo important, beyond important.

Enlightenment this requires a lifestyle change. For me that is focusing on the rising and falling of my chest. I’m talking about the deepest enlightenment, not merely awakening.

Edited June 9, 2018 by Solace

[now is forever]

@Leo Gura group pressure is something  really massive, you understand your roll don't you?

don't want to moralize here, just want you to be careful. you are the center of this discussion.

Edited June 9, 2018 by now is forever

[Moreira]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@now is forever Your experience with psychedelics was only the tip of the iceberg of what is there.

It's like you dipped your toe in the ocean, saw a shark, and ran away forever.

The ocean is still there to be explored.

If you don't want to explore it, that's fine.

Elon Musk say's there are 90% posibilities that the reality we are living in is a simulation. did you saw that in your trips when you whitnesses the absolut? If yes,what is outside the simulation?

[now is forever]

1 hour ago, Moreira said:

Elon Musk say's there are 90% posibilities that the reality we are living in is a simulation. did you saw that in your trips when you whitnesses the absolut? If yes,what is outside the simulation?

i wonder who thought of simulating shitting and naked mules and cockroaches. it's just that we are building simulating machines that serve as models for our world how we perceive it. it showes a lack of direct experience of nature.

sorry for the ordinary words, but by constantly neglecting those things we forget something.

energy might have simulating foundations though. and so has what we perceive as matter.

you could say there are multiple steps of energy evolution. that build multiple layers of reality. and the mind receives what it is able to recive. did you ever wonder if everyone sees the same colours as you do?

if evolution = simulation, it's energy simulating itself no one behind it. and probably nothing outside of it.

but we might never know for sure.

so the question is kind of aggressive...as was mine ☺️

Edited June 9, 2018 by now is forever

[Crystalous]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@now is forever Your experience with psychedelics was only the tip of the iceberg of what is there.

It's like you dipped your toe in the ocean, saw a shark, and ran away forever.

The ocean is still there to be explored.

If you don't want to explore it, that's fine.

It's not everything for everyone!

[pluto]

First of all.. everything is spiritual. Everyone, knowingly or unknowingly is here to ultimately wake up to their true self/Enlightenment without having the infinite intelligence available that is default in spirit/oneness.

Some people go through hell all their lives then have a spiritual awakening(never practicing modern so called "spirituality") and its all absolute bliss for them while others have illusory happy lives then find spirituality/truth then need to go through the truth they never saw and experience the darkness they never truly faced to reach Enlightenment.

Others already have before they got onto a "spiritual path"(so to speak) but one way or another, its always been a spiritual path.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience, we are spiritual beings having a human experience.

Edited June 10, 2018 by pluto

[now is forever]

@pluto do you want to say that everything we experienced is true? or is it just true for us? i'm stil trying to figure that out...but it's like the ultimate question of everything - it seems there will never be an answer.

Edited June 10, 2018 by now is forever

[Nahm]

Skeptical or cynical is a worthwhile self inquiry & realization.  

Great thread. 

[SgtPepper]

I unconditionally accept Leo in his communication. Like another poster said, it felt like Leo was being honest and authentic about his experience. 

Leo's discussion about psychedelics is correct and it falls in line with my experience.

I think at the end of the day, we just gotta do our best for ourselves. We have techniques for raising consciousness like meditation, yoga, psychedelics... Everyone practice it as much as you can, if you don't get enlightened, it doesn't mean you won't find gems and peaks, about who we are. On a material level, who knows what this could mean for our genes and future generations potential to become enlightened. 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

I put myself in the use sparingly and rarely camp with LSD, which is my psychedelic of choice.  I do about 200 mics every four months or so — and I have insights enough to write for months afterwards. The last time I tripped, about a month ago, gave me the seeds for all my recent insights, especially regarding Perspective.  I recall becoming very aware that Perspective is much more fundamental than we think.  I also had some insights about the role of the Guru.  All these insights were written in my Journals.  So, for me, it’s really healthy to trip on LSD about every 4 months or so.  Every time I trip, I get months worth of insights.  If you trip too much too close together, it’s like the law of diminishing returns kicks in, and you don’t really get so many juicy insights.  LSD is also like a spiritual purifier, so you don’t wanna do it until you build up months without it — and then you take your shower, so to speak.  So, I’m a fan of LSD, but in extreme moderation.  I went though a phase where I was experimenting and did it a lot — and I just stopped, because I wasn’t getting the insights anymore.  A couple of months from now when I do LSD again, I’ll guarantee you I’ll pick up a whole new bag of insights.  And then that will give me new fodder for writing a bunch of new material.  That’s how I use psychedelics for what it’s worth.  I don’t get carried away with them.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Faceless]

@Joseph Maynor

What if there is really only one insight?

What if by us continuing in the direction of time (psychological becoming) we are preventing that one major insight that ends the movement of time altogether? 

What if the reason there are so many partial insights is because each of those insights is fragmented and a movement of duality? 

Could there be only One whole insight? 

What is insight? Is insight gained through the accumulation of knowledge, experience, memory? 

Something that may interest you buddy

Edited June 10, 2018 by Faceless

[Joseph Maynor]

6 minutes ago, Faceless said:

@Joseph Maynor

What if there is really only one insight?

What if by us continuing in the direction of time (psychological becoming) we are preventing that one major insight that ends the movement of time altogether? 

What if the reason there are so many partial insights is because each of those insights is fragmented and a movement of duality? 

Could there be only One whole insight? 

What is insight? Is insight gained through the accumulation of knowledge, experience, memory? 

Something that may interest you buddy

What’s the insight?

[Faceless]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

What’s the insight?

Well if it was that easy communicating it i would be a lot more successful in sharing it lol 

But have you ever considered that before? 

Edited June 10, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

Have you read many of my posts? 

[Joseph Maynor]

4 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Have you read many of my posts? 

You gotta give me one insight, that’s what you said, right.  Am I wrong?

Edited June 10, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You gotta give me one insight, that’s what you said, right.  Am I wrong?

I didn’t say I could give you an insight. Besides that implies duality. 

I just asked if you had considered that there may be one insight. And that insight may not be the result of anything within the field of knowledge, experience, memory. (Accumulation) 

No one can give you anything. You see that right?

Edited June 10, 2018 by Faceless