AleksM

Maharishi Effect - Group Meditations Lower City Crime Rate By 16% On Average

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1 hour ago, snowleopard said:

Well, therein is the big 'if' ... Does it make sense to talk about arrangements of molecules becoming conscious, when there are only such apparent 'things' by virtue of that which is conscious of them?

Arrangements of molecules cannot become conscious of course (because everything is fundamentally consciousness).

But special arrangements of molecules and energy is indeed what can create an illusion of being a separate self.

That which is conscious of this self (and everything else) is indeed that which cannot be understood through language, i.e. consciousness/the tao/awareness etc.


Can you bite your own teeth?  --  “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.

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1 hour ago, Maxx said:

What do you mean by there is no looking either? Of course there is looking. If not you just have your eyes closed or are blind. ;) Please elaborate.

"My eyes open" is just a concept in my mind. In direct experience I see an image when "my eyes are open". The "I" is just a concept "see" is just a concept, all there is is the image in awareness, which is not a seer, it is a space for this image. The image is of 3d reality and perhaps of hands in the periphery hinting at a body perceiving this. 

But since there is only the image present in awareness and no seer, then where is the seeing? How can there be seeing without a seer? 

Edited by Dodo

Suppose Love is real, and let's assume reality is unreal. Suppose we discover that the building block of reality is real Love, that means our assumption was wrong and reality is actually not unreal. Reality is real, if everything we supposed is true. I'm not going to say if it is or not.

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To be brutally honest with you guys ... No there is no special 'way' in which reality works.

It's all perspectives and mind-layering upon reality.

Just take a concept like time. The human brain works obviously by having a deep belief that time is a real thing. Yet science and Einstein tells us that time is a complete illusion. A trick. There is no such thing as time, except for the feeling of time that the human brain lays upon reality.

If there is any way in which reality works it can be summed up into a few words: deception and tricks, hide and seek & infinite.

Edited by WaveInTheOcean

Can you bite your own teeth?  --  “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.

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@WaveInTheOcean Interestingly, I just watched a video on this exact topic 

 


Suppose Love is real, and let's assume reality is unreal. Suppose we discover that the building block of reality is real Love, that means our assumption was wrong and reality is actually not unreal. Reality is real, if everything we supposed is true. I'm not going to say if it is or not.

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2 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Dodo and yet there is seeing referred to.

But I don't see seeing as part of 'what is', I see it as an addition by the working mind in order to have this conversation. Just like the use of the word 'I', that doesn't mean that the I is there.


Suppose Love is real, and let's assume reality is unreal. Suppose we discover that the building block of reality is real Love, that means our assumption was wrong and reality is actually not unreal. Reality is real, if everything we supposed is true. I'm not going to say if it is or not.

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@Maxx I think you could even go so far as to say that the universe is an illusion had by you, and the essence in not missing, but hidden in everpresence by being everything around you right now and ‘your person’. 


MEDITATIONS TOOLS  ActualityOfBeing.com  GUIDANCE SESSIONS

NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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13 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Dodo what do you mean by “I” which says that about ‘seeing’?

What I mean you can see easily too: Just become aware of your direct experience. We're talking only about the visual experience right now. So in your experience, without referring to thought (past), what do you see?  Do you not see an image just being? Only if thought gets involved there is the impression that there is a seer and a seeing. In actual experience, there is just the being of that image alone, without an entity that is being aware of it even. More like the image is aware of itself or more simply put, the image is simply being (in a mindfucky kind of way) .

Edited by Dodo

Suppose Love is real, and let's assume reality is unreal. Suppose we discover that the building block of reality is real Love, that means our assumption was wrong and reality is actually not unreal. Reality is real, if everything we supposed is true. I'm not going to say if it is or not.

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@WaveInTheOcean  Well I can see how the illusion of arrangements of molecules can be correlated to the illusion of a segregated body/self. So I suppose the illusion of an arrangement of molecules called a robot, may be correlated to the illusion of that robot being conscious. But in either case, what is dreaming is not the dream body or a dream robot. So my point still stands that materialist scientists trying to create a conscious robot are still trapped in the paradigm that assumes, a priori, that consciousness can emerge from arrangements of matter. In any case, we've gone way off topic here, and I don't see this being resolved beyond a matter of opinion, so perhaps best to let it go, and let the thread revert to the original subject ... with apologies as well to @AleksM

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38 minutes ago, Dodo said:

What mean you can see easily too: Just become aware of your direct experience. We're talking only about the visual experience right now. So in your experience, without referring to thought (past), what do you see?  Do you not see an image just being? Only if thought gets involved there is the impression that there is a seer and a seeing. In actual experience, there is just the being of that image alone, without an entity that is being aware of it even. More like the image is aware of itself or more simply put, the image is simply being (in a mindfucky kind of way) .

What is that “I”

”Nothing” is hidden from you comes to mind.


MEDITATIONS TOOLS  ActualityOfBeing.com  GUIDANCE SESSIONS

NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

That might be Leo's best video.

Loa w infinite regress would be somethin.  A new entry to absolute. 


MEDITATIONS TOOLS  ActualityOfBeing.com  GUIDANCE SESSIONS

NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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Don't plants have some strange consciousness like qualities? 

Maybe I remember wrong but I think even myth busters got readings out of plants

But no inanimate object has ever given a reading. I have to plead ignorance as I have no idea what sort of "reading" they were getting out of plants but the old wives tales of playing classical music to plants to help them grow is another one I remember. What I'm getting at is that plants, considered to be living not inanimate like my coffee mug, seem to hold the possibility of consciousness while my coffee mug doesn't.

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8 minutes ago, Nahm said:

What is that “I”

”Nothing” is hidden from you comes to mind.

 

The I is a thought which refers to the empty space behind the image "I see", which contains all sorts of sensations and stuff that feel like a self that is standing there looking.

Also the image seen is drawn in such a way, that it seems like it is seen from the angle from which that cluster of sensations is "looking" which creates the illusion of seer and seen.

While in actual experience now, it is only the image.

"Emptiness looking at image" can be written more accurately as "Image simply being".

 

 


Suppose Love is real, and let's assume reality is unreal. Suppose we discover that the building block of reality is real Love, that means our assumption was wrong and reality is actually not unreal. Reality is real, if everything we supposed is true. I'm not going to say if it is or not.

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10 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Dodo The image is being?

No, what I mean is the image simply is. 

Do you deny the isness/suchness of the image you see? Although dynamic, it is here now in direct experience. 

Im only describing to you what I see Right now without the additional beliefs that were generated in time that i am a human looking at a world, or any other beliefs i have including quantum physics and so on.

In experience, the image is one and it is surrounded by emptiness in all directions. Again, this is "open eye" investigating without referring to thoughts/beliefs from the past. This means that the eyes are also part of the visual emptiness at that moment. There are no eyes visually perceived, so it's only the image there, even if I refer to "open eyes". That's just thought.

So looked in this way, there is only the image and the image is simply being,  by itself. Not making absolute claims about the nature of reality or self, only trying to show you my contemplation.

Edited by Dodo

Suppose Love is real, and let's assume reality is unreal. Suppose we discover that the building block of reality is real Love, that means our assumption was wrong and reality is actually not unreal. Reality is real, if everything we supposed is true. I'm not going to say if it is or not.

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1 hour ago, Maxx said:

Ok master, I bow down to you.

This issue can only be resolved with direct personal investigation. Our discussions here will forever be inadequate.

Nothing I say should be taken as Gospel. I am merely offering hints and suggestions. And sure, they might be wrong. You won't know until you investigate for yourself.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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