AleksM

Maharishi Effect - Group Meditations Lower City Crime Rate By 16% On Average

113 posts in this topic

On 12/31/2017 at 4:25 AM, AleksM said:

@Mighty Mouse

The rate of change society is experiencing is raising exponentially, the question is only how aware you are of that. There is a big difference between this time we are being right now and the time of ancient egypt.  Don't underestimate the power of the internet.

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B R E A T H E

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22 minutes ago, Maxx said:

I wasn't discussing with you, Leo. I was just stating my opinion, than I was just explaining something so that you maybe wise up a bit and after I read your responses I was merely criticizing. Nothing more, nothing less. That's not debating on my behalf. I've tried openly debating with you once or twice some time ago, but soon realized that you are not interested in debating. As I see it, you are interested in ending up being right and in being didactic towards others. I can assure you, I don't take anything you say as "Gospel". :D LOL. You are in my opinion not more advanced than me. But anyway. I don't feel any desire to talk to you anymore. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in my very humble opinion you not really interested in debating, you are even less interested in someone teaching you on this forum, and the least thing you are interested in is people criticizing you. So, I don't see the point. You won't see me worshiping you I'm afraid.

The addiction to being and feeling right is a trap!  A real nasty one.  I’ve been trapped by it myself.  The Ego is a tricky bastard.  It is hard to always see this trap because the Ego filters it out.  So people can get caught up in this trap without even being able to be aware of it.  That’s the danger of having a shadow, and we all have one too.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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On 12/31/2017 at 10:48 PM, Leo Gura said:

That is an empirical question.

But from what I've experienced, I see no reason why that cannot happen. Because consciousness doesn't actually exist. So no consciousness needs to be created. There is just BEING, which isn't just an abstract philosophical platitude. It resolves the mind-body problem, which is the chief obstacle to people accepting the possibility of conscious machines.

The problem is, under the materialist paradigm, people think that humans "have consciousness". This is technically false. Humans don't have consciousness. Everything is just BEING. And a computer can BE just as easily as a human. So the task for computer scientists isn't to spawn awareness or consciousness, it's to create a digital mind which can fool itself into thinking it exists when it really doesn't.

Of course I am just theorizing here, but theorizing based on my direct experiences of the Absolute.

If I had to bet, I would bet that computers can be made as self-aware or more self-aware than humans, and access levels of consciousness which humans cannot even dream of. But I could be wrong.

This is very speculative.

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On 1/1/2018 at 0:17 AM, Leo Gura said:

@Maxx I'm not interpreting, I was speaking from my direct experiences. Reality is so empty, there isn't even consciousness.

That is true Sunyata, true Mu.

Utter nothingness. Reality doesn't need consciousness. It just is. Directly!

It's a mindfuck for sure. I sympathize with anyone trying to understand all this conceptually. It is just utterly, utterly radical. The mind cannot believe it.

There can be no distinction between inherent vs not-inherent. That is a duality.

You have to consider the possibility that your mind is lying to you more than I am.

Did you get this concept of nothingness from your 5-Meo-DMT trip?  What exactly is so utterly-radical?  What do you mean that reality is so empty that it doesn’t include consciousness?  What is consciousness?

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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On 01/01/2018 at 11:14 PM, Nahm said:

@Dodo I understand what you’re saying. I was point at the “my” in “my contemplation”.

I am just now watching Leo's video on Deconstruction and am at 31st minute.

This conversation came to mind. I tried to describe to you in words my present moment experience / contemplation. I was pointing at something, what I was pointing to was what I meant, which was something that was in your experience too. Like a tree, we can both point to it and say 'tree' without knowing all the other elements of it. We can point to what we mean and we can understand each other completely/100% without the need to understand every word completely/100% but only if it's something concrete. 

Well, on to the rest of the video. It's a fun one to play with for sure.

Edited by Dodo

Suppose Love is real, and let's assume reality is unreal. Suppose we discover that the building block of reality is real Love, that means our assumption was wrong and reality is actually not unreal. Reality is real, if everything we supposed is true. I'm not going to say if it is or not.

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"Explaining", "criticizing", using phrases like 'Ok. What I wanted to show is that your argument, ...' is indeed debating, don't fool yourself :-) 

Everything we talk about here is just concepts, it's not enlightenment. Some concepts are better pointers than others (depends on the student a lot).
So when Leo says he doesn't want to discuss it too much, he's just being clever, in the sense that it's utter pointless to discuss.

The same goes for Buddhism and all other spiritual schools. It's not the absolute truth. Nothing that can be spoken is the absolute truth.

As Alan Watts say so eloquently:

Quote

 

When a chicken comes out of an eggshell, the eggshell is not something to be deployed -- it's certainly something to be broken.

But had the shell not existed, then the chicken wouldn't have been protected in the first place.

So in the precisely the same way, religious ideas, symbols and images exist only in order to be constructively and lovingly broken! Because they are like opening a package. If there is no package, you can hardly get the contents, because it will fall through your fingers.

If something comes to you in a package ..., well, it's like on Christmas Day, here are all these gorgeous packages with colors and gold and everything. And very often the packages themselves seem much more exciting than what's in them. But, heh, you then -- or everybody -- proceeds to tear them apart and get what's inside.

So from this point of view, the Zen Buddhist regard all ideas about Buddhism, about philosophy, about religion as so much packaging. And in order to really get at it, you have to get rid of the packaging.

 

But anyway, it's still fun to discuss I guess :D 

Quote

..."and expect it to be the way nature develops consciousness, believing that the so called AI will become conscious."

So how does nature develop consciousness then?=) 

What does nature even mean to you? It certainly doesn't seem to mean the same to me. To me human beings are also nature. Everything is fundamentally nature, and your distinction between 'nature' and 'artificial' is rather silly if you really think about it.

Saying that something is made out of nothing is IMO not a dualistic concept but rather a non-dualistic idea. Dualism is when you differentiate between two opposite poles and say they don't have anything to do with eachother. For example: black/white, good/bad, something/nothing.

We have to be careful we're not just playing word-games here. 

Appearance and emptiness is indeed the same. And everything is appearances, so fundamentally everything is empty/nothing.

You say things don't exist on their own, well, how do they exist then? Dependent of the observer? Well, isn't the observer and the observed the same thing then (you cannot have one without the other)? If that is so, then it's all one, and everything you see is yourself, and yet 'yourself' is nothing, so everything is nothing, everything is appearences, and they are only real if you take them for real. 

I think you and Leo are pretty much speaking about the same thing, you're just getting lost in words.


Can you bite your own teeth?  --  “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.

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On 12/30/2017 at 11:16 AM, Leo Gura said:

Some food for thought:

Even if everyone on the planet was enlightened, there would still not be peace on Earth.

Even if everyone on the forum was enlightened, there would still not be peace on the forum.:D

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@cetus56  Would there even be a forum? And if so, how tedious would perfectly harmonious consensus be?  Some of the best music has some dissonance in it ;) 

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26 minutes ago, snowleopard said:

@cetus56  Would there even be a forum? And if so, how tedious would perfectly harmonious consensus be?  Some of the best music has some dissonance in it ;) 

@snowleopard I was pointing to the forum as a microcosm of the planet. IMO if we were all truly enlightened here harmony would be spontaneous/effortless not tedious. In the vastness of this entire universe there has got to worlds that live in peace somewhere. We're just not one of em'. But we try none the less.  Hence this forum. "Let him who would move the world, first move himself" Where do I know that from?

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@cetus56  Yes, but must so-called enlightenment preclude dissonance? I suspect the harmony would be spontaneous/effortless, but in keeping with the musical metaphor, so could dissonance be equally so, but not taken 'personally' ... We'd just all be 'day-tripping' ...

 

Edited by snowleopard

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