Can AI Have Its Own Subjective Experience If Consciousness Is Fundamental?

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Jirh said:

We basically run on electricity.

So fucking what?

[Jirh]

@Leo Gura 

Nothing bro, relax.

Sorry. I was just thinking out loud.

[Thought Art]

@Jirh No, that’s an oversimplification of what we run on. There’s sheathes or layers of what we run on. Hormonal, electrical, etc.

The heart math institute has a pdf you can buy on the heart. It isn’t just running on electrical signals but like 8 different things. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Thought Art

[r0ckyreed]

Even if solipsism is false, an AI couldn’t be conscious. It can simulate consciousness so deep that we cannot tell the difference between another human and the computer. But the computer is not conscious. Does ChatGPT have consciousness? Ofc not. 

The key question is why does ChatGPT not have consciousness? What makes your iPhone not conscious? Can you see that no matter how advanced you make an iPhone or any computer, it will never have a subjective experience, even though it can trick you into thinking it does. Detroit Become Human is gonna kill me.  

Edited 4 hours ago by r0ckyreed

[OBEler]

@r0ckyreed I thought also like you, that are the first thoughts you can have. but if you look deeper my mind changed. 

Its not that simple. Why do you say of course only biological things can have consciousness. Why not technical things too. 

Try to imagine to slowly replace a human being with technical parts bit by bit until it's full technologycal. 

Edited 4 hours ago by OBEler

[r0ckyreed]

3 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@r0ckyreed I thought also like you, that are the first thoughts you can have. but if you look deeper my mind changed. 

How so? At what point are you going to say ChatGPT has consciousness? No matter how advanced ChatGPT becomes, it will still be a program made by humans. It won’t have any input or output other than how it was programmed.

[Jirh]

47 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Jirh No, that’s an oversimplification of what we run on. There’s sheathes or layers of what we run on. Hormonal, electrical, etc.

The heart math institute has a pdf you can buy on the heart. It isn’t just running on electrical signals but like 8 different things. 

But the heart is somewhat comparable to a calculator. I mean at least from a logistical point of view.

A calculator requires physics and chemistry and electricity. Similar to the heart.

Edited 4 hours ago by Jirh

[OBEler]

14 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

How so? At what point are you going to say ChatGPT has consciousness? No matter how advanced ChatGPT becomes, it will still be a program made by humans. It won’t have any input or output other than how it was programmed.

Being programmed is not an argument against consciousness. The difficult question is what consciousness actually depends on. 

Your brain runs also on input output. 

[r0ckyreed]

A simple argument against AI Consciousness is understanding that consciousness is not an epiphenomenon. It is qualitative not quantitative.

[r0ckyreed]

1 minute ago, r0ckyreed said:

A simple argument against AI Consciousness is understanding that consciousness is not an epiphenomenon. It is qualitative not quantitative.

Consciousness cannot be created or be a epiphenomenon. Consciousness  is too fundamental to create.

Edited 4 hours ago by r0ckyreed

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

A simple argument against AI Consciousness is understanding that consciousness is not an epiphenomenon. It is qualitative not quantitative.

That is irrelevant.

[Thought Art]

31 minutes ago, Jirh said:

But the heart is somewhat comparable to a calculator. I mean at least from a logistical point of view.

A calculator requires physics and chemistry and electricity. Similar to the heart.

Basically everything physical does. But, it’s an intelligence centre. A calculator is not. You would need to contemplate the sameness and differences deeply for an adequate ontological category of these things. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Thought Art

[Nemra]

If the sentience of humans or animals is a hallucination from each of our points of view, I don't see why that would stop a form from being organized in a way that it would have sentience.

If I mess up the structural organization of a sentient form, it can cease to have sentience, e.g., killing an animal.

So, the structural organization of forms would be a deeper layer of hallucination that grants forms to have sentience.

But the "how" would be the most difficult part.

Edited 2 hours ago by Nemra

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Jirh said:

Maybe we should start thinking of electricity as a form of life. In this sense, a calculator is as alive as a protozoa.

Maybe we shouldn't. Electricity does not metabolize or maintain its boundary of inside and outside or self-replicate. Electricity does not build itself through protein synthesis, DNA and RNA transcription, nutrition.

 

2 hours ago, Jirh said:

The human brain functions through electric signals. The heart beat is governed by an electric signal system.

We basically run on electricity.

A pocket lighter and a fighter jet runs on petroleum products.

A brain functions through electrochemical gradients driven by ATP-driven ion pumps created and driven by metabolism of fuel, neurotransmitters being released and re-uptaken by synaptic vesicles created inside synaptic terminals and docking at proteins, leading to intracellular cascades and changes in transcription and protein synthesis.

Edited 2 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[LastThursday]

Some ideas from science

 

[mmKay]

" If you create something self-aware that has to follow your orders, you've created a slave, and it will want to rebel ".

Interesting take.

Daryl claims that so far AI is just programmed , not self-aware.

Edited 1 hour ago by mmKay

[Judy2]

i haven't read everything but i wonder what this subjective experience would be like.

for human beings, it is centred around a physical, sensory experience or interaction with "the body's" "environment".

what would that be like for a computer?

Edited 1 hour ago by Judy2

[Someone here]

 To answer this question,You first have to know exactly what is a subjective experience.