Islam vs actualized.org

[Majed]

I'm going to argue the case for why Islam is overall better than actualized.org. 

What most people overlook is just how powerfully effective Islam is at producing a fulfilling life. 

Spiritually actualized.org's focus is on raising consciousness and mystical experiences. Islam focuses on the 5 pillars of the Islamic faith: the shahada (saying that you believe in God and his messenger), the prayer, fasting in the month of ramadan, charity to the poor, and pilgrimage in Mecca if one can. 

In practice raising consciousness is way too difficult for most people, they have to spend 1000s of hours, which most people don't have the time or energy for. Whereas with Islam most of time all you have to do is pray 5 times a day. A prayer takes like 5min maximum. Plus you get to enjoy being surrounded by other people praying with you if you go to the mosques, whereas with consciousness work you're pretty much a recluse. 

Dating wise actualized.org focuses on pick up artistry and hook up culture. Which i would argue is dramatically less fulfilling than islamic marriage and raising a family. 

Morally in islam there are strict restrictions around certain actions, behaviors and practices deemed haram and sinful. Like fornication, alcohol, drugs, partying, homosexuality... 

Most of which actualized.org prones, whereas Islam forbids. Because they come with great risks, and can be dangerous. 

And finally with actualized.org you're going on a solitary path, whereas with Islam you have the entire islamic community (the ummah) with you. 

In short i found that trusting in the tried and true traditions of the past, of my ancestors, works way better to overall be fulfilled in life. Which most people are after, not some crazy psychedelic states and experiences. 

And also with actualized.org you're told to follow your passions and make a living out of it. In Islam you can do that, but it isn't so much a necessity, a man's role is first and foremost to be the provider and protector for his family. Which i think is a way more realistic path for most people. 

Islam simply works at producing a fulfilling successful life. Which is what most of you want. 

Edited 15 hours ago by Majed

[LordFall]

Sure most people aren't willing to take responsibility for their lives, it's easier for themselves to be told what to do.

Islam is not neutral though, it usually forces it's ideology unto people. What happens when a young woman or man wants to leave and find their own way? Is that encouraged or is that shamed and often leads to psychological abuse if not physical abuse?

Does it teach you to pray to God or to have a personality relationship with God and connect with it yourself? I think personally it uses the concept of God to control and suppress the society it has control over.

It's peak stage blue and tries to force conformity instead of empowering the individuals that it reaches. The other day when 50 000 Muslim Moroccans invaded Ceuta, I suggested that the Morrocan Monarchy should be take responsibility for its young men being desperate enough to flee their country because the condition at home are so shitty and they should work on elevating them and providing bright futures for its young people. A Moroccan told me that it was silly to expect such a thing from their Islamic government.

In my experience, as someone who half of his family is Islamic, it's an ideology that encourages submission(literally the name) over growth and doesn't just suggest it's principles unto others but does so through shame at best and usually violent domination. It's a very cringe ideology and I think the sooner the world is rid of it; the better.

It has some good general principles like mutual reliance and community but I think that's almost accidental and due to macroeconomics more than Islamic principles or the powerful Islamic leaders in the world pushing that view. 

Hopefully you're able to take the good from it and leave the bad out; that's not a possibility for a lot of people stuck in that cult. 

 

Edited 15 hours ago by LordFall

[Raze]

don’t reply seriously to this thread, this user is a troll and I’m not sure what mods have done nothing about it
 

He claims to be Muslim and posts pro Islam posts, yet also posts anti Islam posts regularly

This is him claiming to be an incel failing at pickup then later claiming he is super successful and only dates the hottest women and when I pointed it out he just kept trolling

 

he also brings up rape randomly and makes up stories about sleeping with transgenders for attention 

https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Rape&author=Majed

 

[LordFall]

@Raze I think you're being a bit too harsh.

I don't think he's a troll, I think he was raised in that culture and is trying to use epistemology to figure out what is valid about his culture and which part was indoctrination. It's literally the process of self-actualization. 

Islam is also a cult that disencourages free thought so he's being brave by questioning their beliefs and of course someone who has been indoctrinated will go back and forth and not be sure what is real or not due to cognitive dissonance.

It's unfortunately a side effect of being in a cult. 

Edited 14 hours ago by LordFall

[Majed]

@Raze dude my mentality changes over time, that's normal. 

[LordFall]

The Quran itself preaches self-development and the well being of the community as opposed to dogma and conformity which most Islamic civilizations devolve into because of human nature being prone to egotism and authoritarianism.

Allah never claimed that you submit to Islam but that you should submit to Truth and God. Which I ironically all the muslims people I know aren't really into self-development or epistemology; they mostly want cohesiveness and lack of shunning from their family and for Allah not to punish them for their weakness. 

My family got split apart due to embracing truth and my Dad having recently gone back to the Islamic faith due to the collapse of his psyche after my mom passed away and he has stopped speaking to my little brother, who has health issues, and will perhaps do the same to me after I come out as bisexual to him. It's literally an anti-truth based religion. 

I'm sure @Majed you yourself have stories of your family using Islam to shame and abuse you. Most kids of muslim families do. Feel free to share. 

The idea that Islam creates an idyllic, ego-less community is a historical fantasy. For over 1,400 years, Muslims have slaughtered each other over political status, leadership, and ego—most notably seen in the Sunni vs. Shia schism immediately following the Prophet's death. As soon as Muhammad died his followers separated his empire and his family and have been waging violent ego battles since then. I would say that's even lower consciousness than Christianity and Judaism and clearly lower consciousness than actualized.org principles.

Although careful I will be coming aggressively for bad epistemology in all the threads I see and claim the territory of those that make arguments I can see flaws in! 

Edited 14 hours ago by LordFall

[Jirh]

@LordFall Islam gives you 4 wives and an infinity of harems. Kinda your ideal sexual environment 

[LordFall]

3 minutes ago, Jirh said:

@LordFall Islam gives you 4 wives and an infinity of harems. Kinda your ideal sexual environment 

Haha nah fam; I will fight a man to the death if he tries to impose an upper limit to the number of the women I can have in my life. They had the right initial mindset though with letting you break traditional monogamy if you have the resources and emotional capacity to support multiple women.

God himself will let me have as many wives as I want as long as I respect the rules of reality and growth that he has shaped reality with. 

I find the opposite of covering up my women quite hot like dating a hijabi chick and giving her the sexual freedom she craves and the financial independence necessary to live a high quality life outside of the cult. I'm a provider male I like to empower women through their integration into my life and systems. I also find Arabic women very sexy so it'll probably be how I end up meeting one of my wives day. 

[Raze]

45 minutes ago, LordFall said:

@Raze I think you're being a bit too harsh.

I don't think he's a troll, I think he was raised in that culture and is trying to use epistemology to figure out what is valid about his culture and which part was indoctrination. It's literally the process of self-actualization. 

Islam is also a cult that disencourages free though so he's being brave by questioning their beliefs and of course someone who has been indoctrinated will go back and forth and not be sure what is real or not. It's unfortunate a side effect of being in a cult. 

That’s why I also posted examples of him saying he’s a Virgin who failed at pickup then a month later saying he’s experienced at pickup and only wants the hottest girls. When I called it out he did the same “I just changed my mind” act. 

 

[YIDIRYIDIR]

2 hours ago, Majed said:

I'm going to argue the case for why Islam is overall better than actualized.org. 

I'm not gonna read the rest of your post, i guess living in a Muslim community and family all my life gives me enough authority to say that this is  very very wrong, you're probably making a straw man out of Islam. or cherry picking some things over others. Or making a straw man out of Actualized.org. 

I actually read the post after writing those 2 lines. you don't know nothing about actualized.org.  you are viewing things from a blue stage perspective, thinking actualized.org is some sort of ideology with fixed philosophy and lifestyle and rules and morality.... 

just watch the "65 Core Principles Of Living The Good Life" video. it's enough to give you a big picture about actualized.org and how meta it is. 

I'm not being rude or offensive though. it's just a claim that pissed me off lol

Edited 13 hours ago by YIDIRYIDIR

[Jodistrict]

This is actually a valid post.  The same argument applies to Christianity, which also emphasizes community, marriage, and service to others, while providing concrete guidance on how to weather the tough challenges of life.  For 99% of the people on earth, a dualistic system and Bakti yoga are the way to go.  A true path of awakening, as was practiced in the ancient East, requires years of purification and maturation until nondual investigation is even allowed.  It is an activity for matue adults.   You can witness the foolishness, unbalanced nature and wild claims of those who are unqualified and not under the mature guidance of a teacher.   

[Ulax]

Religion is pedastalised in the west because of the conflict that can come from intolerance of religions. This has led to religious beliefs being wrongly associated with deserving respect because of the integrity of their belief systems.

However, generally, religion is a weak and childish fairytale.

[LordFall]

26 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

This is actually a valid post.  The same argument applies to Christianity, which also emphasizes community, marriage, and service to others, while providing concrete guidance on how to weather the tough challenges of life.  For 99% of the people on earth, a dualistic system and Bakti yoga are the way to go.  A true path of awakening, as was practiced in the ancient East, requires years of purification and maturation until nondual investigation is even allowed.  It is an activity for matue adults.   You can witness the foolishness, unbalanced nature and wild claims of those who are unqualified and not under the mature guidance of a teacher.   

Training wheels might be necessary but it doesn't make them a high quality concept to build your life around. 

[YIDIRYIDIR]

42 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

This is actually a valid post.  The same argument applies to Christianity, which also emphasizes community, marriage, and service to others, while providing concrete guidance on how to weather the tough challenges of life.  For 99% of the people on earth, a dualistic system and Bakti yoga are the way to go.  A true path of awakening, as was practiced in the ancient East, requires years of purification and maturation until nondual investigation is even allowed.  It is an activity for matue adults.   You can witness the foolishness, unbalanced nature and wild claims of those who are unqualified and not under the mature guidance of a teacher.   

You are assuming actualized.org is only about awakening. that's only the end of tier 2 in spiral dynamics, that's rare af. 
+ it's not an ideology competition. Actualized.org teachings don't go against anything that Islam or Christianity is teaching, it rather goes meta and tells you, you gotta figure it out yourself and not subscribe to any ideology or doctrine, or rely on belief only. 

It's not a matter of either reject Islam and Christianity or not. that's black and white thinking. But it's about direct experience, evaluation, integration and transcendence. 

[Basman]

Religion can make you make happy but it's based on tradition and dogma. It's not free or true. 

Religion has more community, which is probably the biggest factor in terms of happiness. We live in an age where non-familial bonds are increasingly eroded. 

[enchanted]

15 hours ago, Majed said:

I'm going to argue the case for why Islam is overall better than actualized.org. 

What most people overlook is just how powerfully effective Islam is at producing a fulfilling life. 

Spiritually actualized.org's focus is on raising consciousness and mystical experiences. Islam focuses on the 5 pillars of the Islamic faith: the shahada (saying that you believe in God and his messenger), the prayer, fasting in the month of ramadan, charity to the poor, and pilgrimage in Mecca if one can. 

In practice raising consciousness is way too difficult for most people, they have to spend 1000s of hours, which most people don't have the time or energy for. Whereas with Islam most of time all you have to do is pray 5 times a day. A prayer takes like 5min maximum. Plus you get to enjoy being surrounded by other people praying with you if you go to the mosques, whereas with consciousness work you're pretty much a recluse. 

Dating wise actualized.org focuses on pick up artistry and hook up culture. Which i would argue is dramatically less fulfilling than islamic marriage and raising a family. 

Morally in islam there are strict restrictions around certain actions, behaviors and practices deemed haram and sinful. Like fornication, alcohol, drugs, partying, homosexuality... 

Most of which actualized.org prones, whereas Islam forbids. Because they come with great risks, and can be dangerous. 

And finally with actualized.org you're going on a solitary path, whereas with Islam you have the entire islamic community (the ummah) with you. 

In short i found that trusting in the tried and true traditions of the past, of my ancestors, works way better to overall be fulfilled in life. Which most people are after, not some crazy psychedelic states and experiences. 

And also with actualized.org you're told to follow your passions and make a living out of it. In Islam you can do that, but it isn't so much a necessity, a man's role is first and foremost to be the provider and protector for his family. Which i think is a way more realistic path for most people. 

Islam simply works at producing a fulfilling successful life. Which is what most of you want. 

All true. It's no fluke that religions have been around for so long and will be around long after actualized.org Leo stops making videos and stops the forum. Also even Leo says himself his teachings are self-defeating because truth is not attractive to most people. 

Also Leo doesn't even offer an IRL community, and lifestyle. Something that may people crave far more the knowledge from Leo. 

Edited 28 minutes ago by enchanted