Most Dating Books/Teachers Aren't Exceptional

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Overall I accept I will be treated slightly poorly here

Awwww... 

[Leo Gura]

Stop stepping on her toes.

Be more respectful about women.

[Valach]

1 hour ago, Miguel1 said:

I can sense something building up between some guys on the forum and Natasha.

This reminds me of all the heated conversations between Emerald and Etheral Cat vs Leo.

We probably should start a conversation to clear it.

I can sense the tension building up very very clearly actually.

The tension comes from when guys here based on their experience or no experience + knowledge they have learned, view women as these shallow, childhish and easily seduced by toxic, selfish, narcissist, immature behaviour - of course the ladies here do not like that.

Natasha recently gave a very clear warning to AION for calling women shallow. Yet, this has been constantly brough up afterwards, even the leader of the community regularly calls women ”easy to fool” etc. I very strongly sense that Natasha does not like this really at all.

I kinda am hesitant to start the conversation, because it never lead anywhere good throughout the years, despite multiple conversations about it. Instead, we just lost the female members here. But perhaps we are more mature and wiser now?

I would like to have @Emerald @Etherial Cat & @Natasha Tori Maru actively be part of that conversation.

I truly feel like we lose all the quality female members here precisely because of this discord.

I myself am 50/50 in the topic. Yes, a lot / most girls from my experience are immature as hell, and are attracted to immature and unconscious behaviour from a man. But so are most guys immature as hell.

But surely, the more conscious women do not fall for such stupid games, right?! At least this is what I deep down hope for, because that’s what I want.

But is just false, no matter how much I want it?

A perfect pair of boobs is still gonna draw me in, despite all the maturing I’ve done. My discerment is definitely way better now than when I was younger. No matter how perfect the boobs are, toxicity and drama is still mostly a turn off for me, for I value my inner peace very highly.

But I am a man. I can better detach myself from my feelings, or can I?

But the men are just as immature and shallow as woman so I do not understand why we highlight it in woman?

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Overall I think it has gotten better - especially over the last 3 years. 

There's some more fucked up rhotoric that irritates me, but not enough to impact my day - I want no sympathy: 

Women here are maligned for being emotional, feelings based. Unable to make proper decisions because "corrupt emotions" and never using intellect to make decisions with love - and generally just being painted with this frame of femininity "emotional, feeling, expressive, empathic, nurturing" etc. all well and good.

Then there is a secondary dialogue of endless whinging and complaining that women don't use their head, aren't intellectual with decisions, aren't truthful. Work based off feelings etc. that we need to use rationality more. Be more forthright and honest.

And then...

"I am not attracted to masculine women, only feminine. Strong feminine polarity" but also don't be stupid and be in the feelings, also you need to be rational and intellectual like a man. But also don't be like a man because I won't be attracted to you. Pretzel yourself into impossible shit for me.

I don't get it. 

[Miguel1]

45 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Overall I think it has gotten better - especially over the last 3 years. 

There's some more fucked up rhotoric that irritates me, but not enough to impact my day - I want no sympathy: 

Women here are maligned for being emotional, feelings based. Unable to make proper decisions because "corrupt emotions" and never using intellect to make decisions with love - and generally just being painted with this frame of femininity "emotional, feeling, expressive, empathic, nurturing" etc. all well and good.

Then there is a secondary dialogue of endless whinging and complaining that women don't use their head, aren't intellectual with decisions, aren't truthful. Work based off feelings etc. that we need to use rationality more. Be more forthright and honest.

And then...

"I am not attracted to masculine women, only feminine. Strong feminine polarity" but also don't be stupid and be in the feelings, also you need to be rational and intellectual like a man. But also don't be like a man because I won't be attracted to you. Pretzel yourself into impossible shit for me.

I don't get it. 

Thanks for sharing your honest opinions. I would not want you to step down as a moderator. It would be a big loss for us all.

As a man, who spent majority of his adult and teenage life, surrounding myself with girls, I view girls in many ways, way more intelligent than men.

Especially here in Finland, our men are autistic as hell, whereas the women thrive here. Sanna Marin (female) for example, holds the title of the youngest prime minister of Finland.

We are truly one of the leaders in stage Green development.

And the women here are the ones pushing leftist and green values, whereas the men here are way more on the right and hold onto traditional values. They are way more racist and homophobic.

Women are the ones that are more educated here, and in general, they are way more human and empathetic in their approach and intelligence - that’s why I have deep respect for them. My best friends have pretty much all been my ex girlfriends.

All that being said, I have also seen how girls chase after the worst degenerate scums. I have seen how they fall head over heels and lose all intelligence and sense making for the charismatic assholes.

I have seen first hand how my results with women significantly drops, the more I treat them with love, respect and empathy. So even if their normal intelligence (at least emotional and people) is relatively high, compared to the males here, their attraction mechanisms seems to be completely stuck in the past - and it hasn’t evolved and caught up really at all.

Edited 1 hour ago by Miguel1

[Miguel1]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Stop stepping on her toes.

Be more respectful about women.

The issue here is that you, as the leader of the community, are also saying stuff about women that she finds disrespectful.

The same way Emerald and Etheral Cat found them disrespectful.

Edited 52 minutes ago by Miguel1

[Miguel1]

1 hour ago, Valach said:

But the men are just as immature and shallow as woman so I do not understand why we highlight it in woman?

Yes, it’s a good point. One of the reasons is that we are male dominated community, so of course we are biased not to look into our own errors.

On the same point, these conversations sparks from PUA talks, which again is to help the majority of people here, men.

And in PUA talks, we discuss what works on female nature. And to understand it properly, we focus on the female extensively and what they are: immature. Hence immature techniques work on them, and we practice them.

But that obviously corrupts us as well. There is just no incentives to look into it.

I have the incentives, because I have gotten the results from PUA, so much so I am sick of it and want something more integrous, truthful, and higher.

Edited 52 minutes ago by Miguel1

[Ulax]

2 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

I can sense something building up between some guys on the forum and Natasha.

This reminds me of all the heated conversations between Emerald and Etheral Cat vs Leo.

We probably should start a conversation to clear it.

I can sense the tension building up very very clearly actually.

The tension comes from when guys here based on their experience or no experience + knowledge they have learned, view women as these shallow, childhish and easily seduced by toxic, selfish, narcissist, immature behaviour - of course the ladies here do not like that.

Natasha recently gave a very clear warning to AION for calling women shallow. Yet, this has been constantly brough up afterwards, even the leader of the community regularly calls women ”easy to fool” etc. I very strongly sense that Natasha does not like this really at all.

I kinda am hesitant to start the conversation, because it never lead anywhere good throughout the years, despite multiple conversations about it. Instead, we just lost the female members here. But perhaps we are more mature and wiser now?

I would like to have @Emerald @Etherial Cat & @Natasha Tori Maru actively be part of that conversation.

I truly feel like we lose all the quality female members here precisely because of this discord.

I myself am 50/50 in the topic. Yes, a lot / most girls from my experience are immature as hell, and are attracted to immature and unconscious behaviour from a man. But so are most guys immature as hell.

But surely, the more conscious women do not fall for such stupid games, right?! At least this is what I deep down hope for, because that’s what I want.

But is just false, no matter how much I want it?

A perfect pair of boobs is still gonna draw me in, despite all the maturing I’ve done. My discerment is definitely way better now than when I was younger. No matter how perfect the boobs are, toxicity and drama is still mostly a turn off for me, for I value my inner peace very highly.

But I am a man. I can better detach myself from my feelings, or can I?

Why should anyone get special treatment because of their gender?

People get called out for their bs all the time on this forum. I saw you call one of Hojo's posts autistic the other week.

[Miguel1]

1 minute ago, Ulax said:

Why should anyone get special treatment because of their gender?

I did not suggest anyone to get special treatments.

[Ulax]

Just now, Miguel1 said:

I did not suggest anyone to get special treatments.

You clearly imply it.

[Xonas Pitfall]

29 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

The issue here is that you, as the leader of the community, are also saying stuff about women that she finds disrespectful.

The same way Emerald and Etheral Cat found them disrespectful.

It's sometimes just very simplistic, basic "red-pill/pickup" rhetoric on what masculinity vs. femininity is. Take this post as an example: https://www.actualized.org/insights/masculinity-and-truth It's more disappointing how poor the arguments can be, from someone who's spent years deconstructing biases, self-bias, spirituality, duality/non-duality, etc.

A lot of the claims in this post I don't think are accurate or even well-studied/scientifically supported. I think a lot of women on here get tired of how low-quality the arguments are.

I think the topic of masculinity vs. femininity is a very interesting one, and plenty of fruitful conversations can arise from it, but we'll get nowhere if this is the level of argumentation... 

Edited 28 minutes ago by Xonas Pitfall

[Natasha Tori Maru]

No one should get special anything for their sex. 

[Miguel1]

14 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

but we'll get nowhere if this is the level of argumentation...

Yes, and this is where tension and resentment builds up overtime. Hence I softly suggested having a conversation to clear this up. In a mature manner.

Not sure if it is actually doable tho, as people here get triggered and defensive way easier than one would expect from a community like this.

That being said, this is definitely way less toxic than it used to be. But I just don’t think we can get it to a mature level enough to have such high level conversation.

Edited 13 minutes ago by Miguel1

[vibv]

2 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I considered stepping down as a moderator and retiring from contributing here because I do not wish to stay if I supply insubstantial value. 

Overall I accept I will be treated slightly poorly here. 

Emerald and ethereal cat have mostly retired. I would not expect a response. 

I value your contribution greatly, though I can only assume how difficult it must be sometimes.

You're seen for what you do more than you realize.

[Leo Gura]

53 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

The issue here is that you, as the leader of the community, are also saying stuff about women that she finds disrespectful.

The same way Emerald and Etheral Cat found them disrespectful.

Okay. What should I change?