Drama Alert! Another YTber is calling us a cult! 😈☦️

[Carl-Richard]

7 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I'm apologizing for not taking the discussion as seriously as you. I don't care enough about this discussion to put in the effort that I think you deserve.

My elephant hippocampus is calling me, I've heard this before. Interesting that what I identify as a shallow debate method you attribute as a lack of care.

Edited 3 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Elliott]

6 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

My elephant hippocampus is calling me, I've heard this before. Interesting that what I identify as a shallow debate method you attribute as a lack of care.

Do you believe discussing differing opinions has to be a debate?

[Carl-Richard]

3 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Do you believe discussing differing opinions has to be a debate?

How did we get here from this:

11 hours ago, Elliott said:

Do you see a difference between the scientific method and debate?

 

You can't even hold the notion that it's a debate consistent. Man, we're out here at Zul-Andra poison waste fishing for toxic red herrings.

[Wilhelm44]

@Carl-Richard

Just to be clear, I still don't think it's a cult.

I said I thought zurew made 3 strong points, and I hope Leo will respond.

Just as a sidenote, when I asked you on p14 to give your definition of a cult, you also just gave a one liner:

"Social group with wacko beliefs compared to the surrounding society, often religious in nature."

Do you perhaps have a more complete definition yourself ?

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Wilhelm44

[Elliott]

10 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

How did we get here from this:

 

You can't even hold the notion that it's a debate consistent. Man, we're out here at Zul-Andra poison waste fishing for toxic red herrings.

Like I said, I don't care much about the subject. I do however care about understanding your views, that is something that's interesting to me. My questions about debate are irrelevant to the cult debate, absolutely, I find debates in general to be uninteresting. Perhaps it's rude for me to ask the questions I have.

Edited 2 hours ago by Elliott

[Carl-Richard]

26 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

@Carl-Richard

Just to be clear, I still don't think it's a cult.

But you said 'I' was in a cult 🤪 That's what we were talking about.

 

26 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Just as a sidenote, when I asked you on p14 to give your definition of a cult, you also just gave a one liner:

"Social group with wacko beliefs compared to the surrounding society, often religious in nature."

Do you perhaps have a more complete definition ?

I gave a "one-line definition" after a multi-page thread of going into detail (I started off with long posts), and I also elaborated when you asked about it. The issue wasn't that you gave one line in itself, it was that you didn't go into detail on it, at as far as I can remember any point. I asked you to elaborate on it and you said "I'm not an expert on cults. You asked Leo for his definition of mind control. This is what google says about mind control in cults :" and then it was back to talking about us purportedly accusing Actualized of being a cult.

Edited 2 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Wilhelm44]

30 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

But you said 'I' was in a cult 🤪 That's what we were talking about.

 

I gave a "one-line definition" after a multi-page thread of going into detail (I started off with long posts), and I also elaborated when you asked about it. The issue wasn't that you gave one line in itself, it was that you didn't go into detail on it, at as far as I can remember any point. I asked you to elaborate on it and you said "I'm not an expert on cults. You asked Leo for his definition of mind control. This is what google says about mind control in cults :" and then it was back to talking about us purportedly accusing Actualized of being a cult.

Where did I say I was in a cult ?🙂

Yeah, you right, Im not as heavily invested in this as you are.

But I am curious about your official definition of a cult. Is there no one page summary somewhere ?

Edited 1 hour ago by Wilhelm44

[Rishabh R]

I think from this post that we give to many F--ks about what others think about us . 

[Wilhelm44]

1 minute ago, Rishabh R said:

I think from this post that we give to many F--ks about what others think about us . 

🙂

[Carl-Richard]

42 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I find debates in general to be uninteresting.

Bruh what even.

 

45 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Perhaps it's rude for me to ask the questions I have.

No, because if we're all in a cult here (which I think according to my definition, which by the way does not involve exploitation or harm as a necessary criteria, which is also not to say this place is harmless either), you're being "rude" to everyone you've been talking to in this thread, not just me. And even if you were just being "rude" to me, you leaving the thread just for me would be weird anyway.

[Elliott]

Just now, Carl-Richard said:

Bruh what even.

 

No, because if we're all in a cult here (which I think according to my definition, which by the way does not involve exploitation or harm as a necessary criteria, which is also not to say this place is harmless either), you're being "rude" to everyone you've been talking to in this thread, not just me. And even if you were just being "rude" to me, you leaving the thread just for me would be weird anyway.

You're the only one I'm talking to here, Joshe already said he left. I wouldn't leave for you if I was talking to others here.

[Carl-Richard]

9 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Where did I say I was in a cult ?🙂

Nooo the Discord cult, you called that a cult. You said I was in a cult. "Personal cult history may colour his readiness to see cult history here." Elliot: "he was in a cult?". You: "Yes, it was discussed a bit earlier in this thread. (p14)"

 

15 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

But I am curious about your official definition of a cult. Is there no one page summary somewhere ?

 

On 14.5.2026 at 2:26 AM, Carl-Richard said:

I think nobody here has even read the Wikipedia page on cults and are just having an emotional freakout to being called a cult.

When I learned about cults in uni, it was defined in contrast to sects in that sects create their own version of (and claim to be the "true version" of) some existing mainstream religious denomination, while cults essentially create their own kind of religion. Their beliefs are not tied to just one single religious denomination. They may synthesize many of them or simply create "their own beliefs" (if that's possible), often through the personal machinations of the leader.

And as a result, they end up being at odds with the surrounding society in some way. And that increases group cohesion, and especially when the leader is very charismatic and has self-proclaimed superiority over not just the members but perhaps the rest of the surrounding culture and society, that is where the psychological and group dynamics commonly associated with cults start to take form.

And before your mind goes to "but Actualized.org is not a religion", feel free to read the Wikipedia page on that too.

Here I emphasize the "religious" aspect of the definition (and depending on how you define religion, many social groups with deviant beliefs would fall under that perhaps in a way that would be less obvious to most people). Nevertheless, it's definitionally safer and more straightforward to say "social group with deviant beliefs compared surrounding society, often religious in nature".

[Wilhelm44]

31 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Nooo the Discord cult, you called that a cult. You said I was in a cult. "Personal cult history may colour his readiness to see cult history here." Elliot: "he was in a cult?". You: "Yes, it was discussed a bit earlier in this thread. (p14)"

I'm a bit confused now. Was the Discord group not a cult ?

[Carl-Richard]

58 minutes ago, Elliott said:

You're the only one I'm talking to here, Joshe already said he left.

I forgot, but also, you did seem to talk to the whole thread at one point:

12 hours ago, Elliott said:

You guys are valuing yourselves based off of Leo whom you have an identity attachment with, it's like teenagers acting out against their parents.

You two gotta do therapy for your Leo issues. Im being serious, I'm not downplaying Leo's issues.

 

But you will maybe backtrack and say "I said I was maybe asking rude questions; I did not ask a question there", as if there is a salient difference between asking questions and addressing someone in that way with respect to the potential rudeness of being inconsiderate of their personal cult experience. I don't think you quite managed to a roll a six with this one just yet (but you can always find more poison fish in the sea, for example "I was specifically referring to some questions I asked, not the act of asking questions").

 

58 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I wouldn't leave for you if I was talking to others here.

That's a convenient poison tuna assertion for you that I can't be asked challenging.

Anyways, I got baited again. As if asking questions to someone who is discussing that very thing at length with others rude. Suggesting that just comes off like rhetorical waffling.

Edited 45 minutes ago by Carl-Richard

[Wilhelm44]

33 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

On 14/05/2026 at 2:26 AM, Carl-Richard said:

I think nobody here has even read the Wikipedia page on cults and are just having an emotional freakout to being called a cult.

When I learned about cults in uni, it was defined in contrast to sects in that sects create their own version of (and claim to be the "true version" of) some existing mainstream religious denomination, while cults essentially create their own kind of religion. Their beliefs are not tied to just one single religious denomination. They may synthesize many of them or simply create "their own beliefs" (if that's possible), often through the personal machinations of the leader.

And as a result, they end up being at odds with the surrounding society in some way. And that increases group cohesion, and especially when the leader is very charismatic and has self-proclaimed superiority over not just the members but perhaps the rest of the surrounding culture and society, that is where the psychological and group dynamics commonly associated with cults start to take form.

And before your mind goes to "but Actualized.org is not a religion", feel free to read the Wikipedia page on that too.

Here I emphasize the "religious" aspect of the definition (and depending on how you define religion, many social groups with deviant beliefs would fall under that perhaps in a way that would be less obvious to most people). Nevertheless, it's definitionally safer and more straightforward to say "social group with deviant beliefs compared surrounding society, often religious in nature".

Aha, thank you.

[Elliott]

20 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I forgot, but also, you did seem to talk to the whole thread at one point:

 

But you will maybe backtrack and say "I said I was maybe asking rude questions; I did not ask a question there", as if there is a salient difference between asking questions and addressing someone in that way with respect to the potential rudeness of being inconsiderate of their personal cult experience. I don't think you quite managed to a roll a six with this one just yet (but you can always find more poison fish in the sea, for example "I was specifically referring to some questions I asked, not the act of asking questions").

 

That's a convenient poison tuna assertion for you that I can't be asked challenging.

Anyways, I got baited again. As if asking questions to someone who is discussing that very thing at length with others rude. Suggesting that just comes off like rhetorical waffling.

Sorry

[LordFall]

The one part where Actualized is a bit of a cult is it skews too far away from real world results. One definition of a cult I saw from real cult survivor is it reinforces a hierarchy that doesn't translate to the real world so when you leave the cult you're playing catch up. It's not necessarily Leo's fault as he's more interested in spirituality than material success but perhaps that's also a trap he's falling into as he admitted to running somewhat low on funds and having to create more products to sustain himself. Which is fine and real; 80% of the forum members(myself included) seem to be dealing more with material issues than spiritual ones and especially seem to have an unintegrated stage orange.

This creates predictable archetypes like the stage green hippie/well meaning person that has no ability to have an impact on the world besides getting really upset and blaming capitalism for all their personal and collective problems. 

Edited 5 minutes ago by LordFall