Drama Alert! Another YTber is calling us a cult! 😈☦️

[zurew]

21 hours ago, integral said:

Why is actualized.org not just another complete load of arbitrary Belief systems like every other community?

I would reject the underlying premise that the members of other cult like communities have arbitrary belief systems.

They are not arbitrary, you can often times abstract and explicitly spell out their epistemology (the way they acquire their "knowledge" ).

 

But one main difference is the underlying claim that you can independently validate the claims that are made by the leader . The issue in practice though again, is that thats just a facade, because as long as you disagree with Leo, the implication will be that there were issues with your validation process and that you need to do it over and over again (do more drugs, more spiritual work, more contemplation etc) up until the point you agree with the leader. So epistemically there is seemingly an out, where you can independently check things, but socially and cult dynamics like you have the same exact same type of punish-reward system as other cults:

If you agree with the leader you are profound and intelligent and cool, if you disagree, then you are self-deceived and dumb. You are sovereign and you are the ultimate authority as long as you agree, but if you disagree then you should take Leo's opinion over yours  and if you wont, then you are dumb and closed minded.  There is also a internal social force inside the community,  where they will press you with a bunch of different tools to undermine your confidence in that you are more correct that the leader, and that you need to do more work (for instance, "you are not open minded to the fact that Leo is more right than you" etc).

Some other similarities with other cults are - leader has 0 epistemic humility , 100% confidence in main beliefs, 0 ability for the leader and for the group to self correct epistemically, because the norm for what it means for anyone  to be right and or to do the practices right collapses back down to what the leader's interpetation is  and what the leader accepts to be true.

Another interesting subtle dynamic here is that as long as you demonize other communities and point out why they are wrong and why they are dumb , then your sovereignty will be invoked and praised and you will be rewarded for "thinking for yourself"; but if you use your critical thinking and sovereignty to criticize actualized.org, then the claim  will be that you are engaging in unconscious group dynamics and that you are biased towards other communities and that you are just unconciously parroting other people. (and basically its impossible that you managed to arrive at a different conclusion than Leo and that your conclusion can match a different leader's answer or a different community's answer).  And hence, you will be labeled self-deceived and being a conformist towards other ideas and towards other group of people and  your sovereignty  (which was given so much importance and which was praised so much up until the point you agreed with the core main ideas of actualized.org)  will be immediately trashed and undermined.

 

 

And there is more stuff that I left out in my long previous ramble. You can notice that Leo is a big manipulative weasel, not just because he only acknowledges limitation when he is hard pressed and when not pressed he immediately goes back to his natural habitat and acts as an authority on spiritual subjects with 100% confidence, but also because he constantly jumps back and forth in a similar way about his superiority as well .

In one breath, he will say, that he is not human and that  he is above all the limited ,garbage epistemology that humans practice (and so he doesnt care about what any human spiritual leader or philosopher has to say or what objections they have),  but when you press him on that claim , then he will immediately change the meaning of that very claim and will pretend that what he really meant was "the reason why he is not a human is because he is God and everyone is God" - and so he will act like he didnt just remove himself from the limitations that he thinks humans have, and he will pretend that he didnt just treat everyone else as just humans and that he only treated himself as God. 

And the "Im assuming you guys are intelligent enough to interpret my words and posts correctly" in Leo language just means "whatever context we are in right now, and whatever interpretation will make me look the best in this particular situation right now, go with that interpretation and ignore all the previous context that my messages were embedded in; particularly,  if that would make me look bad or if that would make me contradict some of the things I already said".

 

 

 

So in practice and at the end of the day, its not just that the answer to the question of "what is Truth" and what it means to attain the highest levels spiritually will be directly dependent on Leo; and its not just that the norm that decides whether you do the pracitces right or whether you did enough work will be directly dependent on Leo ; and its not even just that its on Leo to tell you what epistemic tools to even use ; but even the very norm that reveals whether you actually act sovereign and whether you actually practice your sovereignty and think for yourself  or not -  even that will be directly depended on and judged and answered by Leo (you are not sovereign if you disagree with the main ideas, because the very fact that you disagree with the Leo's ideas shows that you are self-deceived and that you run by unconscious factors).

Edited 3 minutes ago by zurew

[Human Mint]

Of course the reason people call this a cult very often is because imagine you are an average joe stumbling upon this and someone says "you're not a human, and you completely believe you're a human".