Some Can't Be Helped?

[Butters]

Do you believe that spiritual experiences are something most people benefit from? Can most people who desire to expand their consciousness? 

In another thread someone said something like "some people go to 10 ayahuasca retreats and nothing changes" and that is true. Some people go to 6 Tony Robbins events per year. 

Can we then conclude that some people simply cannot expand their consciousness in this lifetime? 

And does that then make a kundalini retreat or a yoga retreat or a psychedelic retreat completely useless to them? Surely it's still time better spent than being on TikTok. 

 

[Leo Gura]

Most people can't be helped.

You can't help someone who doesn't want to change.

[Schizophonia]

Helped for what. 

People are just machines with a very complicated script that varies according to their "genetics" and environmental conditions; their "karma" in general.

It is neurotic, masochistic to think that getting intoxicated on a hallucinogen (ayahuasca in particular) which slightly increases neuroplasticity for a few hours replaces psychotherapy; among other forms of ethics, such as going to the ashram if you feel like it. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Schizophonia

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, Butters said:

Do you believe that spiritual experiences are something most people benefit from?

Deep spirituality is destabilizing for most people. Spirituality is for the extraordinarily curious and/or escape-seeker. It's destabilizing even for these people, but identity structures and cognitive addictions allow for persistance.

Maybe you could say light spirituality is beneficial for most. 

[Ponder]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Most people can't be helped.

You can't help someone who doesn't want to change.

That’s where you’re wrong. If you have a strong enough baseline consciousness, people change by simply being in your presence. 

[Joseph Maynor]

Kinda presupposes a question of what are we really trying to do (maybe) with our help to others.  

[AION]

Everybody can be helped to a certain degree. But like with certain old cars. The benefits are not worth the costs. 

[Leo Gura]

31 minutes ago, Ponder said:

people change by simply being in your presence. 

This sounds nice, but it doesn't actually work.

The mind is way too stubborn to change from such minor things.

You are not gonna woo someone into changing.

Edited 23 minutes ago by Leo Gura