Why is it impossible to convince a religious person out of their faith ?

[Majed]

I was having a debate with my parents who are convinced muslims and i realized it is just impossible to talk to these people out of their faith, but why is that, it is really a fascinating phenomenon. 

[Majed]

@Leo Gura What do you think ?

[Puer Aeternus]

I guess I can toss you a few angles here. Of course different nuances apply.. if they were raised into the religion or converted, if they genuinely follow the rules prescribed by their religion or merely put on a self-serving religious mask. 

The most obvious, is that they may have some level of social religious enmeshment. Meaning for them Islam could be heavily involved in their work, familial, social, and even societal life. Realistically on the strange chance one of them could be convinced by your arguments.. the other likely won't take to it, so that would be their marriage at stake too. The truth is that they are already comfortable in their way of living and they don't have any harsh enough punishing circumstances pushing on their beliefs.

You will not win in them with some logic level debate because what is holding this together isn't logic. Giving any of this up could bring painful conflict with loved ones, potential questions about how to make a living and surviving, hell a full blown crisis that would take years and decades to integrate. Just very uncomfortable when many do not even seek out slight discomfort willingly. It is likely that their religion is the frame through which all of reality. Imagine everything flipped on its head!? You will need something heavy to break the rationalizing power of religion. 

A less talked about but interesting point I think, is that they are still prone to experiencing synchroneities as much as anyone else. AKA those divine "coincidences" that will be interpreted directly through their religion and viewed as strong evidence for them following the true faith when ya'know.. anyone can get them, across religious or non-religious belief systems. 

If they are to be pushed from the faith it would take some great circumstances beyond you. Like a falling away or replacement of the mentioned social forces in their life. Or an incredible tragedy and crisis that would push them to the brink. But of course, nothing is linear or predictable. All these circumstances could have the reverse effect of making them even MORE religious or cause no change at all. Since they are probably older they're even less likely to change with so much crystalized life experience and deep stories about the world, whereas younger people whose stories, identities, and lifestyles are much less solid and could be more open to change. 

[Emerald]

46 minutes ago, Majed said:

I was having a debate with my parents who are convinced muslims and i realized it is just impossible to talk to these people out of their faith, but why is that, it is really a fascinating phenomenon. 

Because someone's religion is often a huge part of their cosmology... and their identity is shaped in relation to that cosmology. So, religious deconstruction is usually only precipitated by a dark night of the soul where the bottom falls out of the paradigm entirely, and the person must deconstruct and reconstruct a new identity and new cosmology.

It's not for the faint of heart, at all. I've had many clients and friends who have deconstructed, and it's very difficult inner work precipitated by a crisis of meaning. 

But if you're a scientifically-minded person, I could give an analogy... 

Imagine a scientific thinker who was raised in an environment where the central paradigm of the society was a very science-based cosmology. And let's say that that scientific-thinking person's cosmology and identity is shaped on a foundation of scientific rationalism. And all their coping strategies are based in this paradigm as well.

And then, let's say (hypothetically) if a new and more accurate intellectual paradigm and cosmology was presented where science was discovered as incorrect, illusory, or constructed... then you could imagine how difficult that would be for that person to deconstruct their scientific paradigm and the identities they've built up off of it.

That's what happens when religious people go through the process of deconstruction.... they have to unpack and change A LOT of elements of their worldview and identity... perhaps most of them.

And it takes time. And while a really shrewd cult leader-ish person, could unethically brainwash someone and pull them over into their own cosmology... most people don't deconstruct at the behest of other people. And that's especially true if you give rational arguments.

What you do when you confront a religious person to try to get them to deconstruct when they are content with their current paradigm is to either entrench them further (in 99% of cases, this is what happens) or you potentially destabilize their identity and push them into a dark night of the soul and identity crisis that they don't know how to handle (in a small percentage of cases this happens... and it's not great if you push them over prematurely) 

Edited 6 hours ago by Emerald

[Leo Gura]

For the same reason it's impossible to talk you out of your belief that you are a human in a physical world.

That IS your reality. You know no other.

Edited 6 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Majed]

@Leo Gura I know i am God and that the physical word is a hallucination, an optical illusion within consciousness which is infinite. 

[Majed]

@Emerald Very interesting and thoughtful, thank you for responding.

[Leo Gura]

@Majed Good, well, just replace that with whatever other opinion you hold strongly. Perhaps something related to dating.

Anything you think is real, you can't be talked out of. Whether it is real is irrelevant.

Edited 6 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

@Majed I would say leave your poor parents alone haha 

[Inliytened1]

6 hours ago, Majed said:

I was having a debate with my parents who are convinced muslims and i realized it is just impossible to talk to these people out of their faith, but why is that, it is really a fascinating phenomenon. 

Genetics.  Some people can be open minded to change and some are close minded and locked into a belief with no way out.   Even with an upbringing from birth they can break out but a lot of times the upbringing from birth makes it very hard for those not genetically gifted. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Inliytened1

[enchanted]

6 hours ago, Majed said:

I was having a debate with my parents who are convinced muslims and i realized it is just impossible to talk to these people out of their faith, but why is that, it is really a fascinating phenomenon. 

It really is a fascinating topic.

Perhaps it's also like this: Imagine having children and then when they are a bit older they try to talk you into Scientology,  Mormonism, or something similarly ubsurd to you.

Edited 1 hour ago by enchanted

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, enchanted said:

It really is a fascinating topic.

Perhaps it's also like this: Imagine having children and then when they are a bit older they try to talk you into Scientology,  Mormonism, or something similar. 

Its not the religion its the individual.   

There's no such thing as a religious person.

There is a only a person that is religous.  

Edited 1 hour ago by Inliytened1

[Staples]

Because in order to be convinced, one has to be open to changing their mind. 

The issue is they don't want to be convinced. There is nothing you could say to make them change their mind. They have to decide to do it themselves, which may never happen.

[VeganAwake]

People fear the unfamiliar.

The answer is fear!

[Ramasta9]

Have you even considered they may not need to? or your advice? or you trying to change them?

Growth is in your example, its one thing to know you are God, its another to actually walk it.