Why is Russia being held to a higher standard than the US

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

@Leo Gura I think Israel should exist aside a Palestinian state too. And like me many more think that. Why not both? 

But you compartmentalize in your mind the existence of your state from the ethnic cleansing needed to create it and also sustain it.

Why noth both? Because the injustice from the taking of the land has created a hatred for you that will not die and will not give you peace in your nation.

You expect the taking of the land to just be forgiven and forgotten, but that's not how humans work.

Not to even mention that your top political leadership wants even more land and they run the show, not you.

Edited 1 hour ago by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not to even mention that your top political leadership wants even more land and they run the show, not you.

Yeah I agree that as long as Netanyahu, Ben Gvir and Smotrich parties are in charge it won't change.

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But you compartmentalize in your mind the existence of your state from the ethnic cleansing needed to create it and also sustain it.

Why noth both? Because the injustice from the taking of the land has created a hatred for you that will not die and will not give you peace in your nation.

You expect the taking of the land to just be forgiven and forgotten, but that's not how humans work.

I understand. Is there a better alternative? I think it is the best solution that can be.

If Israel will give them a bit more areas as a compensation to the areas the settlements has taken, and make more measures to help them feel they also won somehow it can help to cool their hate, but it is hard to find a politician even in the center-left to think of it holistically enough.

I believe many Palestinians just want to live their lives and most of them won't be that ideological as they anyway stay in their homes they have for decades in Judea and Samaria.

Edited 1 hour ago by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

I think it is the best solution that can be.

And the skunk thinks his smell is actually quite pleasant and beneficial for the world.

Edited 1 hour ago by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And the skunk thinks his smell is actually quite pleasant and beneficial for the world.

Do you think Two-State solution isn't a fair one?

Edited 56 minutes ago by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

@Leo Gura The thing is that to leave the Jews in 1945 without justice is also unfair.

[zazen]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The logic here is much more existential. Israelis literally need to kick Palestinians off the land in order to have a Jewish nation.

It is critical to understand that for understanding this conflict. It is a zero-sum game for them. Israel cannot exist without ethnic cleansing. Once you buy into the idea that Israel needs to exist, you accept the ethnic cleansing project.

Agreed - but on a different timeline. They literally needed (past tense) to cleanse Palestinians post Holocaust (existential survival logic) - in order to settle a majority Jewish state in a majority Arab land.

But today they have a state, one of the strongest militaries in the region, nuclear deterrence and superpower backing. So the existential survival logic doesn't exist today, only a existential threat to their supremacy and domination beyond their own state.

They play conflation Olympics between survival and supremacy - hence the deceptiveness on which an entire thread on the forum exists lol. Though I'm sure in some minds they do feel existential threatened - largely self inflated by their own propaganda, past trauma/paranoia and worldview - but speaking objectively it doesn't exist.

3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@Leo Gura I think Israel should exist aside a Palestinian state too. And like me many more think that. Why not both? 

Bro we know not all Israeli's are as twisted as the far right but to mention it every chance with a disclaimer is tedious business.

Israels predicament is that it was a settler colonial project in response to a horrific Nazi project, but a settler colonial project that happened at the wrong time in history - during a time when de-colonization was happening and where that sort of way of doing things was phasing out of global norms.

This means that even if they achieve their aims (largely have) they will be hated by the world for doing so. It’s got a moral and legitimacy crisis for continuing to exist the way it is by not settling the injustice it caused at its inception and continuing that injustice till today.

Zio's missed the boat.

Edited 9 minutes ago by zazen

[Nivsch]

15 minutes ago, zazen said:

So the existential survival logic doesn't exist today, only a existential threat to their supremacy and domination beyond their own state

I am partially disagree, but let's assume it was the case, still, you are missing out the micro dimension. Many citizens are in such an experience about themselves personally and it infilterates to the macro collective feeling.

Edited 9 minutes ago by Nivsch