Who Wants Actualized Psychedelic Retreats?

[Nemra]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Maybe I won't reveal it ever.

It is probably salvia. It doesn't appear to be illegal in the state of Nevada.

It could also be a mescaline-containing cactus.

Edited October 6 by Nemra

[Yimpa]

No more speculating! And no waiting around for a special retreat with a bunch of people to find out what is truth.

All of this hype could just be another trap, after all 

[cistanche_enjoyer]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Maybe I won't reveal it ever.

May I ask why? Do you think some people here could incorrectly use it and hurt themselves? Is it so more dangerous than psychedelics?

[UnbornTao]

On 10/4/2025 at 0:20 AM, Thought Art said:

Really contemplate this…

It's a trap! Coming directly from the guy himself. 

On 10/4/2025 at 0:16 AM, Thought Art said:

@UnbornTao I mean, enlightenment or awakening isn’t the opinion of someone else at the end of the day. You have the experience or access the state and you know. 
 

This idea that awakening has to come from a technique like meditation but not a technique like tripping is kind of strange to me. It’s a weird bias after enough contemplation. 

Neither is it one's own opinion, belief, or preference. It's not even subject to perception, but this is difficult to hear, as this is the only place we have to look. And it's not a state. As for your second sentence, who said that?

How do you see enlightenment? What is it? Earnestly inquire into that. Now, after all that, ask again. Then seriously consider that it is neither of those. No place to hide! It's you now. The drugs only alter your brain. It's like putting on running shoes to get at the place you already are. Or some such analogy.

Edited October 7 by UnbornTao

[UnbornTao]

On 10/5/2025 at 5:26 PM, integration journey said:

What happens in Vegas , stays in Vegas. 

Viva las Vegas

[UnbornTao]

On 10/5/2025 at 5:33 PM, Jodistrict said:

It does have something to do with the brain.  Consciousness is modulated through our nervous system.  This is what Yoga is about - purification of the nervous system to prepare it for higher consciousness.   Shinzen is actively working with scientists to locate the brain centers involved in enlightenment.  I tend to trust Shinzen on this subject because he was my first meditation teacher and I had personal contact with him and know he is for real.  But that is just personal to me.   

Nothing needs to change, and whatever happens in the brain is a secondary side effect and shouldn't be the focus. It's absolute and prior to the brain. It was the case before you had a body - as if. Don't turn this into a cosmology.

What you're talking about may better be called healing, but no healing, transformation, or process needs to take place for that. Again, it's useful to really revisit the reality that we actually do not know what this "direct" business is about.

Edited October 6 by UnbornTao

[UnbornTao]

On 10/5/2025 at 5:35 PM, Nemra said:

You just now proved to me that the quality of the experience makes the difference, using Ramana's example.

Why do you assume that what he experienced is what you are experiencing or even capable of simulating?

Also, have you become enlightened or not? 

It's neither an experience nor a perception, so I guess we're fucked.

Edited October 6 by UnbornTao

[Vibes]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Maybe I won't reveal it ever.

Oh come on!

I never asked you anything 🥺

[Jodistrict]

45 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Nothing needs to change, and whatever happens in the brain is a secondary side effect and shouldn't be the focus. It's absolute and prior to the brain. It was the case before you had a body - as if. Don't turn this into a cosmology.

What you're talking about may better be called healing, but no healing, transformation, or process needs to take place for that. Again, it's useful to really revisit the reality that we actually do not know what this "direct" business is about.

Meditation is a technique for awakening that we know works.   It has worked for thousands of years, worked for Buddha, etc.  Ramana Maharshi meditated in a cave for 17 years.  From a modern perspective, the problem is that it takes too long.   Shinzen’s idea is to give meditation (which we know already works) a technical boost using technology to cut down the time it takes to awaken.  It doesn’t replace meditation, it amplifies it.  He has already experimented with this describing a TMS session as “like compressing a week-long retreat into 20 minutes”.   Meditation is an empirical technique and not a dogma. 

[Cocolove]

I'd come for sure

[Yimpa]

[joeyi99]

Would you also consider doing basic seminar style like free tours?

[OBEler]

Leo I am interested.

Just one question. Will the psychedelic be a full dose or in the lower dose area? 

[zurew]

7 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Nothing needs to change, and whatever happens in the brain is a secondary side effect and shouldn't be the focus. It's absolute and prior to the brain. It was the case before you had a body - as if. Don't turn this into a cosmology.

It's neither an experience nor a perception

I dont want to defend the drugs (because I dont care about that, I care about being accurate about enlightenement and whether it is random or not), but the inference you gave so far doesnt establish the idea that enlightenement is random or that nothing can increase the chance of it. The entailment of what you are saying is that there is no such thing as enlightenment work and even Ralston probably wouldnt want to say such a thing.

Even your dream analogy doesnt hold up - its like saying "getting hit with a hammer in a dream cant cause you /induce the experience of  pain, because you are absolute". Your absolute nature wont prevent from the dream having certain patterns to it and it doesnt necessarily have to be causal patterns.

 

7 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

It was the case before you had a body - as if.

It was the case, but enlightenment is the recognition of that truth and recognitions are time related - this is why you can talk about stuff like "you are not enlightened at t(0) but you are enlightened at t(5)".

If you grant that enlightenement is recognition related  , then lets talk about things that can help with (not necessarily cause) recognitions. Anything that can drive or spread one's awareness or attention can be relevant to enlightenment work. The pattern (your absolute nature) that needs to be recognized is always "in front of you", its just that your awareness and attention never "catches it".

 

 

Just think about what the entailment is when you say stuff like "you can recognize it right now" - what does that mean? It means that it is always available to you regardless of time and place, but it also means that you need to fuck with your awareness and attention (otherwise the recognition would have already happened). Its like there has always been a screen in front of you and you havent recognized that fact yet , because you were distrated by focusing on the forms on the screen and the experiences the screen created within you (your awareness and attention was distracted from the relevant fact that it is a screen and this is why the recognition couldnt happen and the pattern [the screen] couldnt be recognized)

I know the analogy with the screen isnt perfect because screens are spatiotemporal and we are talking about non-spatiotemporal stuff (there is no specific space or time to focus you attention to or on), but you still need to fuck with your awareness and attention or "spread" it for the deep existential recognition to happen.

[Leo Gura]

All consciousness is mediated by chemicals.

If you think otherwise you are wrong. And whatsmore chemicals are creating your wrongness.

Edited October 7 by Leo Gura

[Clarence]

Have you already thought about which area of the city the retreat could take place in — like the Strip, or a calmer area?

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, OBEler said:

Leo I am interested.

Just one question. Will the psychedelic be a full dose or in the lower dose area? 

I don't want to reveal such details yet.

3 hours ago, Clarence said:

Have you already thought about which area of the city the retreat could take place in — like the Strip, or a calmer area?

Don't know yet. Any meeting room will do.

Edited October 7 by Leo Gura

[JosephKnecht]

This has the potential to revive the ancient Dionysian Mysteries. 

Or it could turn into a giant clusterfuck such as the one in Jonestown. 

Which way it turns out, only God knows... 

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, JosephKnecht said:

This has the potential to revive the ancient Dionysian Mysteries. 

Or it could turn into a giant clusterfuck such as the one in Jonestown. 

It is neither of those.

There is no dogma, nor tradition, nor survival distractions at my retreats.

The retreats will be direct and serious, like my videos.

[UnbornTao]

On 10/6/2025 at 2:46 AM, Leo Gura said:

This is false.

Ralston and Brendon do not understand psychdelics. Their statements about psychedelics are patently wrong and ignorant. They spread misinformation about psychedelics and consciousness. Be warned, if you listen to them on this topic you will be badly deceived.

They do know a thing or two about direct consciousness, and that's where they're coming from.

This isn't to say psychedelics can't be beneficial, but that's the point: beneficial at what? 

Point to anything they do, and it's going to be relative. Nothing can produce direct consciousness because it's not a process. Changing brain activity is still just changing brain activity. There's no causal relationship between what happens in your experience and this direct business. Enlightenment isn't an event that happens or is experienced.

I've had breakthrough 5‑MeO experiences that I'd categorize as "bliss." Even though they're moving - and as impossible as it is for the mind to accurately assess what may have occurred - in the end it's only a state, another experience. People can easily gum up their preconceptions with what happens in the trip, and this seems incredibly common, almost inevitable to a point.

It would also be incredibly easy and tempting for me to delude myself into thinking I had an awakening or actually grasped something for real. You get swayed by the experience. I'd talk about bliss, Love Awakening, God, my spiritual journey, Oneness, freedom - this and that - and most of you guys would eat it up indiscriminately, not knowing the difference between phenomena and direct apprehension. But I don't do that, because it isn't true.

I once had a "no-self" insight (I don't even like saying that) while walking the dog. Who's up for that religion? Dog-walking your way towards enlightenment.  

It's a bit like believing you can get dressed by using clothing design software. No matter the design or sophistication of the software, these are entirely separate domains.

It's the dream‑stimulant analogy again: wherever you look and whatever you do isn't it, and there's no way to get from here to there. This impossibility has to be deeply experienced. At the same time, it is possible to grasp it now - for everyone.

Edited October 7 by UnbornTao