She wants kids - I don't. Give up SEX and companionship?

[Lucasxp64]

This is the core of what Leo said here. We are presented over and over again during our dating/relationship/sex life with the option to act towards getting sex and companionship at all costs, or we act facing our values and the well being of the other.

What happens when:

- She says she wants a baby someday, but I don't intend to do so. And I lie about it?

- She says she wants a committed relationship. But she isn't attractive enough, and I know I'd jump boat given a better option

- When she is physically attractive as heck, she is sexually and romantically compatible with me. But, a bipolar toxic emotionally attached promiscuous polygamous slut (by her own words), but she lied to me about wanting a committed relationship, meanwhile she made me feel bad about trying to understand her true intentions early on, since I was trying to play it to see if she had polygamous or monogamous intent.

- When she is somewhat attractive, but it was mostly a lie because every photo I saw from her came through some filter. And she is a Christian dogmatic bipolar highly opinionated person that would be on a weekly basis creating turmoil and making me feel lesser as a person, but she would help me with money, give me some resemblance of companionship and sexual validation online.

- When I'm doubtful if lying to them about my income and social status will or won't improve my odds of having sex and companionship when I'm desperately dry?

- When I have monogamous intents, but all I have are phone/chat contacts, and I tell I have monogamous intent to multiple women meanwhile I'm sexually explicit with multiple of these women online.

- When I have monogamous intent, but none of them are yet quite what I want. But I know I can't tell them: "I have monogamous intents in my life, but you're simply not hot. I'm sorry, but we can keep the companionship and the sex that I like, until I find someone hot enough."

- And what if, I had polygamous intent, but I feel off-put by women that are promiscuous, and I'm unilaterally breaking the terms, but when I'm with them, I'll act like the most loving monogamous romantic boyfriend, but with multiple women, until I start basically seeing less of the women I like less, and keep the ones I actually want the most. Maybe until I'm concerned of losing them due to arising suspicion and I'm forced to make a choice between equally great women?

- What if... She is all I ever wanted, but I might have become locked-in into chasing better and better, even though I might want to stop with this ethical pain and the ups and downs and drama of new people?

https://www.actualized.org/insights/actualized-quotes-264

Edited Wednesday at 10:37 AM by Lucasxp64

[Lucasxp64]

Do most people just keep lying to each other and to themselves?

It seems like that's how many men will fall for having marriage and kids. For the sake of not losing the sex and companionship alongside not wanting to hurt the other person.

I've heard stories where the men or the woman wanted marriage and kids, and lied to the other about monogamy because they wanted to keep the other person happy. But it utterly destroys with them emotionally when they learned they systematically were seeing dozens or hundreds of different people during that time for example.

[Xonas Pitfall]

Not necessarily. There are definitely plenty of records of people living happy, long-term monogamous marriages, and even after death, they hold those relationships as meaningful and deeply cherished. So yes, there are definitely people out there like that, if that’s what you truly desire. I suggest reading through happy, non-toxic Reddit threads.

The general rule is this:
Take ownership of what you can control, and let go of what you can't.

Things you can control:

• Understanding what kind of lifestyle you want (polyamory or monogamy?)
• Whether you want kids or not
• What level of attraction do you expect in a partner, and whether you can stay attracted as they naturally age
• What values, beliefs, and level of personal development your partner should have (e.g., spiral dynamics, philosophical maturity)
• What kinds of personality traits do you want in a partner: introverted or extroverted, nurturing or independent, playful or serious, etc.
• Hobbies and passions you’d want to share or support

Now, hold yourself accountable too:
That ideal partner you wrote down, would they even like you? Are you in the same general bracket of attraction or compatibility? Are you attracted to polyamorous or monogamous people, and would they be attracted to you? Do you hold the same values or spiritual/philosophical outlooks you expect from them? And are you acting in line with those values? Can you hold attraction over time? If you wish for monogamy, what practical, logistical steps are you taking to prevent things like cheating, shiny object syndrome, or uncontrolled lusting? Are you developing emotional maturity, deepening connection regularly, staying honest with yourself and your partner, and avoiding situations that feed temptation? If you wish for polyamory, are you actively filtering for partners who genuinely want? Are you clear about your boundaries, communication expectations, and how jealousy or time-sharing will be handled?

Now ask yourself:

• Are you going to the types of places where you’re more likely to meet someone like that?
• Or are you spending time in environments that feel completely opposite or shallow?
• Are you openly communicating the kind of relationship you want, or are you presenting a fake image and trying to slowly manipulate the other person into becoming what you want?

Remember, you only need to find one person (if that's what you want.) It's definitely realistic and possible, but you have to put in the effort. And yes, that will require sacrifice. But what in this world doesn’t? People don’t usually complain about not being able to start five businesses at once, because they understand the sacrifice and dedication it takes to make even one successful.

✨😉

Edited Wednesday at 11:05 AM by Xonas Pitfall

[Leo Gura]

Yeah, that's the bitch of dating. A lot of very difficult and sensitive scenarios there.

It's very hard to find the right long-term girl if your standards are high. But if your standards are so high and you're so honest about them, you'll basically not get laid for years or a decade -- which is also unworkable. You're left with all sorts of grey choices.

I don't have a solution for you. Try to minimize their suffering and try not to lead them on if they are hoping for something long-term and you know they are not good enough for you. Try to make it clear if you are only interested in them for short-term fun.

Lying about wanting kids is quite problematic. Be careful! A girl who wants kids can trick you into having a kid without you even knowing about it. Do not get girl pregnant who is not long-term material. That will turn into a nightmare. Do not impregnate a girl with mental disorders. She will make your life a living hell.

Regarding the kids situation, you gotta tell her you don't want kids. She will probably still keep seeing you unless she is older and very serious about kids. But if she is that serious, leading her on there is not right.

Edited Wednesday at 11:39 AM by Leo Gura

[meta_male]

1 hour ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

Remember, you only need to find one person (if that's what you want.) It's definitely realistic and possible, but you have to put in the effort. And yes, that will require sacrifice.

Seems to me the sacrifice is going without intimacy for longer than feels tolerable with no guarantee it ever pays off.

[Spiral]

I wouldn’t want to be in a short term or long term relationship with a girl who wants kids, unless I want them myself.

My ex’s best friend tricked her boyfriend into getting her pregnant. My ex thought that was a completely reasonable thing to do.

Sex isn’t that great, awesome in theory but when you think about it, it’s really is kinda silly. To put ourselves thru so many much pain and risk for something like that.

[Schizophonia]

The other is a mirror, so If you really want someone loving you'll tend to come across girls who want children.

Because everything is possible but it's less probable than someone loving say you in the same time "oh i hate children it's boring and and a lost of time and money".

[CARDOZZO]

@Lucasxp64

This is too much pressure to deal with. You'll end up trapped in your mind and horny. Just move on, talk to lots of woman. Do not sacrifice your mental health for sex or unstable woman. If you are really horny with no options, go to a escort.

[AION]

Just say you don’t know and roll with the punches. Even when you find somebody who fits your liking, it is still constant chaos with them. 

Edited Wednesday at 12:59 PM by AION

[RendHeaven]

lol this shit is too easy!

2 hours ago, Lucasxp64 said:

- She says she wants a baby someday, but I don't intend to do so. And I lie about it?

Tell her point blank that children are not in the cards for you.

Tell her you're open to further companionship but you understand if she would rather end things.

2 hours ago, Lucasxp64 said:

She says she wants a committed relationship. But she isn't attractive enough, and I know I'd jump boat given a better option

Leave.

2 hours ago, Lucasxp64 said:

When she is physically attractive as heck, she is sexually and romantically compatible with me. But, a bipolar toxic emotionally attached promiscuous polygamous slut (by her own words), but she lied to me about wanting a committed relationship, meanwhile she made me feel bad about trying to understand her true intentions early on, since I was trying to play it to see if she had polygamous or monogamous intent.

Have sex with her and ignore her texts.

2 hours ago, Lucasxp64 said:

- When she is somewhat attractive, but it was mostly a lie because every photo I saw from her came through some filter. And she is a Christian dogmatic bipolar highly opinionated person that would be on a weekly basis creating turmoil and making me feel lesser as a person, but she would help me with money, give me some resemblance of companionship and sexual validation online.

Leave.

2 hours ago, Lucasxp64 said:

- When I'm doubtful if lying to them about my income and social status will or won't improve my odds of having sex and companionship when I'm desperately dry?

Don't even talk about your income or social status. Get good at redirecting attention, like a magician.

2 hours ago, Lucasxp64 said:

- When I have monogamous intents, but all I have are phone/chat contacts, and I tell I have monogamous intent to multiple women meanwhile I'm sexually explicit with multiple of these women online.

Don't announce that you're looking for monogamy, unless they ask first. 

Shotgun approach with your sexuality is acceptable prior to any commitments.

2 hours ago, Lucasxp64 said:

- When I have monogamous intent, but none of them are yet quite what I want. But I know I can't tell them: "I have monogamous intents in my life, but you're simply not hot. I'm sorry, but we can keep the companionship and the sex that I like, until I find someone hot enough."

Don't fuck people you don't find hot. Come on.

2 hours ago, Lucasxp64 said:

- And what if, I had polygamous intent, but I feel off-put by women that are promiscuous, and I'm unilaterally breaking the terms, but when I'm with them, I'll act like the most loving monogamous romantic boyfriend, but with multiple women, until I start basically seeing less of the women I like less, and keep the ones I actually want the most. Maybe until I'm concerned of losing them due to arising suspicion and I'm forced to make a choice between equally great women?

2 hours ago, Lucasxp64 said:

- What if... She is all I ever wanted, but I might have become locked-in into chasing better and better, even though I might want to stop with this ethical pain and the ups and downs and drama of new people?

Sounds like a skill issue.

If you find the one for you, then stfu and choose to love her. Don't pull an aubrey marcus.

Or if you just can't resist your inner STALLION OF EROS, then just decide to be a poly slut and stop larping monogamy.

It's a simple binary decision.

[RendHeaven]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

But if your standards are so high and you're so honest about them, you'll basically not get laid for years or a decade -- which is also unworkable.

Learned this the hard way.

But even then, high standards beat low standards every single time.

So much pain around relationships come from people forcing an encounter where there's nothing there.

[Leo Gura]

42 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

high standards beat low standards every single time.

I don't know about that.

If I operated on that rule I would have lost 90% of sex.

My standards are impossible to meet.

Edited Wednesday at 02:01 PM by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Lucasxp64 said:

but it was mostly a lie because every photo I saw from her came through some filter.

Aahahahaha....

Girls love to screw you with those filters.

You gotta explicitly forbid them to use filters from day one. Or they will send you all kinds of fake bullshit.

My God. The world is so fucking fake you can't even trust a picture from your girlfriend. Gotta run it through a fraud detection service.

Edited Wednesday at 02:06 PM by Leo Gura

[Joshe]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Try to make it clear if you are only interested in them for short-term fun.

This usually makes the girl like you more. 

One night stands, no problem. But if you have sex multiple times with a girl and you know you don’t want anything more than sex, you have to hide that fact from them because if they knew you just wanted their sex and nothing else, they wouldn’t keep sleeping with you.

The only way to keep getting the pussy is to make them think there might be a chance you’re interested long term. If not explicitly stated and made abundantly clear, silence signs the contract. And when the terms are brought to light, you act surprised that you didn’t know she wanted something serious and you justify your parasitic behavior.

Telling women you don’t want them gets you more pussy than telling them you do. This keeps them coming back. Over, and over. Until they finally ask you to commit. At which point, your selfish ass will say “I’ve told you multiple times I don’t want anything serious”, and then continue to take her for her pussy and have to swat down her begging and pleading every 3 or 4 fucks or so. 

This dynamic makes using women (casual dating) hard if you’re to maintain integrity. 

Girls only sleep with a guy multiple times if they consider them a long term prospect. If you know from the jump you are not but continue to play the game, well… 

Edited Wednesday at 03:37 PM by Joshe

[theleelajoker]

My experience align with what @Joshesaid

• Me not wanting them made them typically want me more (truly not wanting, not pretending to not want)
• ONS yes, but after that it's typically "committ or no more sex"
• Multiple times sex only if they see potential long term
• Women with self esteem don't come back when you make things transparent. You have an mature conversation about it and then part ways 
• Yeah silence signs the contract. It's one way to get more sex but I don't do that (anymore) because of mentioned integrity and more awareness about my own intentions & dynamics m/f
• There are exceptions of course but most interactions went as above 

And I strongly recommend integrity, every action has consequences. You fool some girls and then you fall in love and ...she fools you lol

Edited Wednesday at 09:12 PM by theleelajoker

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, theleelajoker said:

You fool some girls and then you fall in love and ...she fools you lol

Haha. It's bound to happen. 

1 hour ago, theleelajoker said:

ONS yes, but after that it's typically "committ or no more sex"
Multiple times sex only if they see potential long term

Yes, I think this is the best way to go about it. Only problem is, most guys aren't going to be disciplined enough. 

1 hour ago, theleelajoker said:

Me not wanting them made them typically want me more (truly not wanting, not pretending to not want)

Haha, yeah, it's like when you truly don't want them, they can't stand it. And if you're open and honest with them about it, they think "hey, not only does this guy not need me, but he is also responsible and has integrity by letting me know... I think I like him" lol. I have a buddy who I talked into telling girls upfront that he didn't want anything serious from them and he found out this kept them on the line even better than previous techniques, and now he uses this to exonerate himself when they keep coming back. "I have told them over and over". 

Edited Wednesday at 10:27 PM by Joshe

[Lyubov]

As someone who is getting married, I can relate a little bit of what you wrote. Here's the thing, you only have a limited amount of time and resources, and it gets spent up a lot sooner and quicker than you think. If she want's a baby and you truly know in this moment you don't then, be honest and tell her, do not lie about that. Be open to it changing, or never changing, but be honest. As a man there is indeed this drive to crave more and more beauty, I'm grateful my girlfriend is beautiful, thin and has a nice body but even I still sometimes want more or see a woman who has some unbelievable or different proportions and I desire sex with this other woman. You need to balance these two opposing forces of wanting something else vs being grateful with what you have. It's something you need to reflect on and you aren't born with some manual to life on what choice may be right for you always, you have to live life and make mistakes and just live it, it's always evolving and changing. You can't be outsourcing your emotions to her or blaming her in any way for them. Grow up. Don't waste any more of your time wining and playing games about how you feel bad or tricked or whatever. You know the truth and your mind knows the truth and what you don't know isn't a problem, you can continue to learn and grow in the relationship or leave it and learn and grow single. You overthink stuff way too much. Just be honest and stop being so autistic in your thought. 

 

Edited Wednesday at 10:54 PM by Lyubov

[Lucasxp64]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You gotta explicitly forbid them to use filters from day one. Or they will send you all kinds of fake bullshit.

It had a 3D SPACE DIALATION FIELD around her face, when her hand would go through it, it would distort the hand in 3D space. 😂😂😂

[Lucasxp64]

2 hours ago, Lyubov said:

You can't be outsourcing your emotions to her or blaming her in any way for them. Grow up. Don't waste any more of your time wining and playing games about how you feel bad or tricked or whatever. You know the truth and your mind knows the truth and what you don't know isn't a problem, you can continue to learn and grow in the relationship or leave it and learn and grow single.

I had learned a lot this year. One of those girls there that I felt the most intense about I was suffering intensely for months after I stopped talking to her and I went after just isolation for that time period, I did a lot of journaling. Then I began talking back to her and all my suspicion about her was right, but at the same time we had suck a massive sexual chemistry for each other, we did phone sex several times and I had made her have multiple orgasms, and we both knew in person it would have been awesome. Unfortunately due to distance and my current circumstances it can't happen, and I had to stop the calls and the texting completely because it was taking a toll on my psychological well-being the polyamorous aspect of it that she wanted to be sharing about her sexual experiences she was having and she wanted to hear mine, which I'm having right now none of. She is extremely hot, I'd fuck her even if I was a billionaire.

But it was a nice experience to grow psychologically and get out of scarcity mindset that I can't attract hot women. But also to understand how much emotional projecting I was doing that lead to my own suffering. I literally had one night I had a Buddhist version of the dark nights of the soul when I couldn't sleep all night and I had  to visualize an infinity of beings through time suffering over and over again due to ignorance.

Hours later I told her a softer version of my suffering (I just couldn't sleep, it was probably the cold weather), and we just had some sexting and I went for a walk, it was a nice warm day outside.

With this chick, I was keeping my tongue to myself as much as possible despite her BS, I think she found it hot that I was demonstrating such emotional stability, but inside she was making me miserable, I felt like she was an energy vampire emotionally. It was hard to let go because of inner ego game. I went back to the platform where I got her from, and back to back to back I had attracted more women that are basically equally as far as she was.

It sort went back and forth with some drama with her, but also the intense sexual attraction we felt for each other was addicting to both of us. She actually felt super attracted to me even after several months of not talking. She said she had an intense lust to fuck me specifically despite her options.

My game for finding local women online is absolutely garbage, but to find and attract within my whole country I already mastered  that and I frankly burned through that karma already, of attracting all of these women all over the country that I can't met, and it just removed my insecurities. But, I'm still in my zone of comfort, I need to get my shit together financially (go from completely financially broke) to solve the logistical issues. 

---

I guess it's the crazy-hot matrix.  

She was an 8 at east in hot, which means she had to be at least a 9 crazy hahahahah. 😂😂😂😂

Edited yesterday at 01:03 AM by Lucasxp64

[Lucasxp64]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Try to minimize their suffering and try not to lead them on if they are hoping for something long-term and you know they are not good enough for you.

That's the major ethical issue. I was feeling sick to myself this year at some point when I had some conversation with those girls online about it. But because it's online, and therefore is not even an implied relationship possible, I try to keep drama to the minimum, but there is one in specific that isn't quite my standard but I like the connection for what it is, but she keeps mentioning her long term goals of having a kid and she is starting to build that mental fantasy, like even showed a child and joked about me sending my sperm in a tube through mail LOL.

It's just so grey this stuff. But I'm imaging if I had this stuff where I'm seeing someone like her in person with this personality, I think I'll end up at first just taking the ambiguity route of saying (which is true to my feelings):

"I don't think I want to marry and have kids because it's specially difficult to find somebody to trust and raise children with. It's not like it's outside the realm of possibilities for me, I like the idea though. I want to be in a committed relationship."

But in all seriousness. It feels like a major risk. Marriage is already a further attachment therefore leading to having something that could bog me down in my finances/spiritual/life purpose and make it harder to break up if thinks don't go well, and children is that on steroids. Kids are inadmissible unless I already achieved all of that stability in my life and I feel inclined someday to do that beyond my other projects.

There is a part of myself that wants to impregnate a woman that is just right for me, I find it somehow irresistible the idea if my life was all in-check. But I might out grow from that idea, it comes from this monogamous loving part that hasn't burned yet through that karma of having that kind of loving relationship.

Like I tell them, it's more likely I'll go meditate on a cave someday than cheat on them. Specially the better they are to me, the more they ascend my mind and I feel less of the need.