Unfairnesses and injustices in dating

[Joshe]

Good stuff, thanks @Emerald and @RendHeaven.

[LordFall]

@Joshe Which AI model did you use for that screenshot? It's well formatted 

[Emerald]

20 minutes ago, aurum said:

How do you distinguish between a beauty glutton versus someone who is attractive and also just wants an attractive partner?

First off, a person who is attractive and just wants an attractive partner could also be a beauty glutton. I worked with a perfect 10 of a guy who's wealthy and attractive... but he was still a beauty glutton as he couldn't appreciate in a woman that which wasn't ideal beauty-wise and otherwise. To clarify what I mean, there was always this sense that the grass is greener elsewhere.

But it's really a guy with a conquest mindset about women and beauty, where he's always trying to get the most beautiful woman he can get... and often focuses towards expanding towards an abundance of ideal-looking women. 

Contrast this with a guy who meets a woman he happens to find attractive and then sparks up a genuine human-to-human connection with that woman.

It's essentially the maximizers versus the satisficers... where beauty gluttons are maximizers that are always trying to expand and expand towards more and more ideal options. And he thinks about women only in relation to physical beauty and neglects the emotional connection element.

And he will not want to contract his options. He will want to continue conquesting and expanding his beauty options.

For him, the way he thinks about dating is "I'm going to go try to attract a 10"... as opposed to "I'm going to meet a woman that I find attractive and see if there's chemistry and connection."

And this kind of man is on a mission towards maximization of perfection and idealism in his life because he can only recognize beauty in the perfect and ideal... which creates a beauty starvation in him, since he can only see beauty in its most obvious forms.

So, he is not one that's able to recognize the beauty of that which is imperfect. So, he chases ideals non-stop because of his starvation for beauty, as he needs to seek relationship with beautiful women to even sense beauty at all.

He is one that is not able to sacrifice his image of the ideal woman for relationship with a real woman. And all women are imperfect and have the disgust factor associated with being a human being with a human body.

Edited July 10 by Emerald

[Emerald]

11 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Good stuff, thanks @Emerald and @RendHeaven.

 

[Eskilon]

@Emerald Your responses are really good. I really liked the use of the "beauty glutton".

 

What kinds of other gluttons exist? Spiritual glutton, intellectual glutton, intelligence glutton, ambition glutton, sex glutton, wisdom glutton, lmao

The possibilities.

Edited July 10 by Eskilon

[Emerald]

31 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

@Emerald Your responses are really good. I really liked the use of the "beauty glutton".

What kinds of other gluttons exist? Spiritual glutton, intellectual glutton, intelligence glutton, ambition glutton, sex glutton, wisdom glutton, lmao

The possibilities.

Yes... many types of gluttony.  

Thank you!

[aurum]

@Emerald that's all fair. "Grass is always greener" mentality can create problems.

It's important to not just reduce relationships to physical appearance. Especially if you want to start a family.

If you wanted to start a family, you'd be thinking about what kind of partner this woman will be for raising kids. Which cannot just be about looks.

[Schizophonia]

@Emerald I love some women laugh, small details like that eheh

For the physical aspect, let's say that my brain will systematically eliminate girls with less than 5/10, then there is an automatic preference for a higher "score" but that is not the most important thing.

Edited July 10 by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

2 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

u think i'm trynna fugg a saggy crusty grandma bro

I think about what deep down you think you deserve, of course you don't "want" an old and/or unattractive woman. 

Because you're young and attractive so you can pretend to better.

Edited July 10 by Schizophonia

[Joshe]

3 hours ago, LordFall said:

@Joshe Which AI model did you use for that screenshot? It's well formatted 

That was just ChatGPT. It's probably adapted to me. 

[theleelajoker]

5 hours ago, Emerald said:

Honestly, it's pretty easy to sort out beauty gluttons as there are many tells that come through in their vibe and the way they carry themselves... as well as the way they relate to your physical appearance as a woman.

You can immediately tell when a guy is really into you or just scrounging around for a beauty conquest.

It's not something that most women have to over-focus on to sort out. It's just a discordant vibe that doesn't feel very good.

Most women are unattracted to this vibe.

But for women who are used to being objectified and mistreated, they can develop some blindspots to this type of guy. And the familiarity of it can attract them.

Maybe you can do that easily, or maybe your circle of friends. You would be surprised how often I have seen or heard the opposite. 

There's a guy that I know, he created the term "fakeship" as strategy to keep women engaged, faking the intention of entering a relationship with them. He simply figured out what signals to give to so that the women believe he's genuinely interested. And he's a not  a unique case.  Remember another guy that had his own stories. And then this happens once or twice to a woman and then we have the fuck up we seem to have in today's dating world.

Needless to say, the guy I'm talking about is a) not happy himself and b) has his own story (trauma) that keeps him from entering deep emotional connections 

[Princess Arabia]

48 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

Maybe you can do that easily, or maybe your circle of friends. You would be surprised how often I have seen or heard the opposite. 

There's a guy that I know, he created the term "fakeship" as strategy to keep women engaged, faking the intention of entering a relationship with them. He simply figured out what signals to give to so that the women believe he's genuinely interested. And he's a not  a unique case.  Remember another guy that had his own stories. And then this happens once or twice to a woman and then we have the fuck up we seem to have in today's dating world.

Needless to say, the guy I'm talking about is a) not happy himself and b) has his own story (trauma) that keeps him from entering deep emotional connections 

I guess you didn't notice her last paragraph. Same as you're saying here.

[Emerald]

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

@Emerald I love some women laugh, small details like that eheh

For the physical aspect, let's say that my brain will systematically eliminate girls with less than 5/10, then there is an automatic preference for a higher "score" but that is not the most important thing.

That's what people tend to do... they automatically eliminate people who are a standard deviation (or more) less attractive than they are.

They, they'll go for whoever they're attracted to and have chemistry with.

And of course, good looks draw people in.

But a healthy mentality about it is to find someone that you find attractive who "hits the bar" and then see if there's deeper connection to be had.

The beauty glutton is one who simply tries to maximize the attractiveness of his sexual partners in a conquesting kind of way. And he won't feel content with a woman of his level of attractiveness, even if he theoretically could find her attractive if he wasn't so fixated on aiming for perfection.

Often times, this kind of guy is just seeing very beautiful women as the judges for his own worthiness as a human. And he can't project that kind of authority to judge his worthiness onto ordinary-looking women.

So, he isn't interested in them (even if those women are more attractive than him) because he doesn't feel like they have the power to validate his existence as worthy.

But of course, that guy isn't ready to be in a relationship because he wouldn't be able to relate to the woman he's with as a person.

[Emerald]

3 hours ago, aurum said:

@Emerald that's all fair. "Grass is always greener" mentality can create problems.

It's important to not just reduce relationships to physical appearance. Especially if you want to start a family.

If you wanted to start a family, you'd be thinking about what kind of partner this woman will be for raising kids. Which cannot just be about looks.

100%

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, theleelajoker said:

Maybe you can do that easily, or maybe your circle of friends. You would be surprised how often I have seen or heard the opposite. 

There's a guy that I know, he created the term "fakeship" as strategy to keep women engaged, faking the intention of entering a relationship with them. He simply figured out what signals to give to so that the women believe he's genuinely interested. And he's a not  a unique case.  Remember another guy that had his own stories. And then this happens once or twice to a woman and then we have the fuck up we seem to have in today's dating world.

Needless to say, the guy I'm talking about is a) not happy himself and b) has his own story (trauma) that keeps him from entering deep emotional connections 

Lots of women have familial patterns that set them up for these kinds of dynamics.

So, while most women won't be vulnerable to this kind of thing... the women who have patterns in childhood that make them susceptible to trickery like this can end up in these unfortunate circumstances.

Of course, I have my own familial patterns. I tend to be attracted to men who are either angry all the time or struggle with expressing anger. And that's reflective of my mom and my dad respectively... where I polarized in the same direction as my dad, with difficulty expressing anger.

So, I have been susceptible to that pattern... and find men with anger issues (in either direction) attractive.

But I'm not very susceptible to this type of objectification and duping pattern. I've never had an issue finding a partner who's really serious about me and loves me.

I can sense immediately the type of guy who would do that kind of manipulation, usery, objectification, and duping, and I'm not attracted to that vibe.

And that's how women without trauma around those patterns will relate to such a guy. It will automatically give off an icky sleazy vibe.

But icky sleazy vibe will be attractive to a woman whose parent(s) had the icky sleazy vibe who objectified her and devalued her. And that guy will be a projection screen that she can use to repeat the patterns from childhood.

The same thing is true for men as well, of course. All human beings develop attractions based on familial/familiar patterns.

Edited July 10 by Emerald

[theleelajoker]

37 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Lots of women have familial patterns that set them up for these kinds of dynamics.

So, while most women won't be vulnerable to this kind of thing... the women who have patterns in childhood that make them susceptible to trickery like this can end up in these unfortunate circumstances.

Of course, I have my own familial patterns. I tend to be attracted to men who are either angry all the time or struggle with expressing anger. And that's reflective of my mom and my dad respectively... where I polarized in the same direction as my dad, with difficulty expressing anger.

So, I have been susceptible to that pattern... and find men with anger issues (in either direction) attractive.

But I'm not very susceptible to this type of objectification and duping pattern. I've never had an issue finding a partner who's really serious about me and loves me.

I can sense immediately the type of guy who would do that kind of manipulation, usery, objectification, and duping, and I'm not attracted to that vibe.

And that's how women without trauma around those patterns will relate to such a guy. It will automatically give off an icky sleazy vibe.

But icky sleazy vibe will be attractive to a woman whose parent(s) had the icky sleazy vibe who objectified her and devalued her. And that guy will be a projection screen that she can use to repeat the patterns from childhood.

The same thing is true for men as well, of course. All human beings develop attractions based on familial/familiar patterns.

In a nutshell: agree.

Have / had my attraction pattern, too. Women that are great human beings but also give a vibe of "I need to be saved/ I don't love myself enough / I am not enough to be loved". So I subconsciously had the idea of "maybe I am the one that can help change that?" (Short answer: No)

As a friend pointed out, it's a family dynamic I copied from my parents. And the friend luckily also pointed out that obviously, nobody can save anyone, you can only save yourself. 

Knowing the childhood story of my parents it's understandable that they had this kind of dynamics and individual adaptation to their respective family system. Happens. In another post, someone said "you're half your dad and half your mum" - so I guess it's "normal" that we subconsciously copy our parents behavior, it's in our genetic code as soon as we are born + growing up watching them. We can only change what we are aware of...

Took my dad long time and three marriages to - more or less - loose that savior pattern, I am optimistic I can do that earlier!  Re my mother I don't know it seems a bit more work in progress, but there is movement. There is still time, I'm optimistic she will make a leap as well very soon 

So, for anyone reading this, my advice is: get to know your (grand-) parents and their story as much and as soon as possible! Might save you a lot of energy and bad experiences. And to go full circle with the OP - it's likely to lead to happier dating

 

[aurum]

Most women will be attracted to anger in men. 

[RendHeaven]

41 minutes ago, aurum said:

Most women will be attracted to anger in men. 

oh no

[Natasha Tori Maru]

52 minutes ago, aurum said:

Most women will be attracted to anger in men. 

I know I fall outside this category - but to me it shows an inability to conduct themselves.

It communicates they are incapable of being effective in the world without force.

Stoic leverage is what I look for.

Sign of immaturity that most women are attracted to anger - but I see your point confirmed frequently 

[aurum]

1 minute ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I know I fall outside this category - but to me it shows an inability to conduct themselves.

It communicates they are incapable of being effective in the world without force.

Yes great point.

Men need to learn a proper relationship with their anger.