Unfairnesses and injustices in dating

[Lyubov]

This is the one thing which keeps you stuck in red pill energy, even if you haven't gone down this rabbit hole. Focusing on unfairnesses and injustices in dating, relationships, man/woman societal roles, access to sex and resources. All these imbalances, unfairnesses and injustices in society when it comes to marriage, mating and dating, grinding an axe and obsessively future proofing yourself over these is what is holding you back from seeing through the veil and finding what is authentic and true for you. You aren't keeping yourself safe by focusing on this. You aren't righting some wrong by by discussing this. Just let it go. Imagine there is a way for this entire cloud over the male psyche to disappear if you just stopped focusing on this and focused on your true value and what makes you special and unique? Imagine that by just doing that any issues you have will resolve and your relationships will unfold in a way where they are satisfying and everything works out? Try it

Edited July 4 by Lyubov

[Tenebroso]

You are either attractive or not, burying your head in the sand helps nothing. I find it interesting how this advice is never given to women. You never hear people tell women "get over the imbalances, unfairness, injustices in society" or any other demographic but the advice for men is just to suck it up and supposedly issues will resolve themselves and relationships will unfold.

People like you don't say this from a genuine place of concern or care but to shut down conversation and silence men struggling with dating. Men who struggle with dating make you uncomfortable because they unmask the true shallow nature of society. In reality buzzwords such as true value, being special and unique count for little.

In 2025 love is going to come to you because you are some detached, enlightened person who has everything figured out. The manosphere is mostly trash and full of grifters but people like you OP are trash in another way, due to your intellectual and spiritual arrogance, an unearned condescension. You don't have the answers.

Edited July 5 by Tenebroso

[Hojo]

@TenebrosoHes technically saying stop all your programming you can get it however you want there is no injustice.

That aside you will find a woman and then you will cum and then you will just want it again and now have the memory of it implanted in you and will want it more.

Whatever love a woman can give you is not what you think it is or are looking for. You want a woman that you can give your heart too you cant you just pretend too.

This is deep meaning you are longing to pretend to give your heart to someone. You dont want it.

Edited July 5 by Hojo

[Princess Arabia]

Nothing makes one special and unique. DNA and fingerprints are what distinguishes us from the rest. Life is pain and suffering, death is relief from pain and suffering  Therefore advice like these only fuels life with more pain and suffering. Maybe not initially but when life takes a curveball and shows whose the boss, figuratively speaking. Only advice that's of any use is on how to deal with the curveball when it happens, not how to avoid it. It's inevitable. Life is impersonal so our manipulative tactics will only bite us in the end because no two fingerprint is alike, therefore no advice given can satisfy all if even applied.

Edited July 5 by Princess Arabia

[LordFall]

@Lyubov Agreed, this mirrors the red pill stages of grief : anger, denial, bargaining, depression and acceptance. Focusing on the bad parts of how unactractive you are is basically anger/depression stage and what makes up black pill thinking.

@Princess Arabia Yes acceptance of pain is one of the biggest ways to relieve it. You seem to imply that it's useless to build anything outside of that though. 

@Tenebroso You seem to be stuck in the black pill stage of anger, empower yourself brother. 

@Hojo For sure looking to escape the pain of life through a woman will never work long term. Only spirituality and purpose truly help in my experience and women are your companions on the way. 

[Joshe]

Yes, they get in their own way. 

The best thing for them to do is just go get a girlfriend and have sex a thousand times so they can stop obsessing about it.

There's no need to worry about pickup and female psychology and all this bullshit. You just go put yourself around people and learn to have fun and be yourself. Sooner or later, a girl will give you a look. Don't respond to it. Wait for another look, then smile or use a more intense gaze to acknowledge her. Before long, you'll have your pecker up in some wet stuff.

You don't even have to approach. All you have to do is talk to them from across the bar or where ever you are. I found they actually like that you make your first communication with them from a distance but it should be a neutral topic, no teasing or pickup line. Something as simple as "holy shit, did you see that?" invites her in. If she doesn't want to come, put her out of your mind and continue to have fun. She just might wind up at your side 20 minutes later. 

It's really that simple. Just go out with a goal to have fun, not get laid. Girls are attracted to fun, laughter, and easy-going demeanor. Smile and laugh a lot, and it's impossible to not get laid. If you go to a bar and take up space (not like a clown) and laugh loudly (but not too loud) and crack jokes, every woman in the place will wonder about you. Keep sex in the very back of your mind, not the front.

Use something in the environment as a way to connect, such as the music jukebox, dart, pool, or ring game. Mostly joke, discuss things in the environment, tease once or twice only, and ask questions in between. Don't try to be cool, she can smell your bullshit. Don't be afraid of silence and actually don't care if she walks away and never comes back. You need to build a reputation of being fun and easy-going, not a needy try-hard.

Bars are great for getting laid and practicing your social skills. Not nightclubs, as there's too much going on.

This is the easy path to getting the pecker wet, but feel free to analyze hundreds of hours of female psychology and pickup content if that's more important than actually getting some puss. 

Edited July 5 by Joshe

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Joshe +1

Over intellectualising kills chemistry, connection and clarity in the moment.

Wise advice 

[Princess Arabia]

Nice @Joshethat whole take is gold.

[Emerald]

8 hours ago, Joshe said:

Yes, they get in their own way. 

The best thing for them to do is just go get a girlfriend and have sex a thousand times so they can stop obsessing about it.

There's no need to worry about pickup and female psychology and all this bullshit. You just go put yourself around people and learn to have fun and be yourself. Sooner or later, a girl will give you a look. Don't respond to it. Wait for another look, then smile or use a more intense gaze to acknowledge her. Before long, you'll have your pecker up in some wet stuff.

You don't even have to approach. All you have to do is talk to them from across the bar or where ever you are. I found they actually like that you make your first communication with them from a distance but it should be a neutral topic, no teasing or pickup line. Something as simple as "holy shit, did you see that?" invites her in. If she doesn't want to come, put her out of your mind and continue to have fun. She just might wind up at your side 20 minutes later. 

It's really that simple. Just go out with a goal to have fun, not get laid. Girls are attracted to fun, laughter, and easy-going demeanor. Smile and laugh a lot, and it's impossible to not get laid. If you go to a bar and take up space (not like a clown) and laugh loudly (but not too loud) and crack jokes, every woman in the place will wonder about you. Keep sex in the very back of your mind, not the front.

Use something in the environment as a way to connect, such as the music jukebox, dart, pool, or ring game. Mostly joke, discuss things in the environment, tease once or twice only, and ask questions in between. Don't try to be cool, she can smell your bullshit. Don't be afraid of silence and actually don't care if she walks away and never comes back. You need to build a reputation of being fun and easy-going, not a needy try-hard.

Bars are great for getting laid and practicing your social skills. Not nightclubs, as there's too much going on.

This is the easy path to getting the pecker wet, but feel free to analyze hundreds of hours of female psychology and pickup content if that's more important than actually getting some puss. 

Best and most realistic dating advice for guys that I've seen on this entire forum.

[aurum]

Bars are not superior to nightclubs for approaching. They are too small, unless you live in a city like Miami where even the bars are practically nightclubs.

Also, the most attractive women are typically at nightclubs rather than bars.

Edited July 6 by aurum

[Schizophonia]

13 hours ago, Emerald said:

Best and most realistic dating advice for guys that I've seen on this entire forum.

ChatGPT who advices alcohol 😹

[Joshe]

4 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

ChatGPT who advices alcohol 😹

I had to bend it to my will. 😆

18 hours ago, aurum said:

Bars are not superior to nightclubs for approaching. They are too small, unless you live in a city like Miami where even the bars are practically nightclubs.

Also, the most attractive women are typically at nightclubs rather than bars.

You gotta find a good bar. 

When I was 21, I was socially anxious but I decided to start going to a bar every Friday and Saturday night. I'd sit by myself and just be nice and polite to people and warm up slowly to them. Over time, I built a reputation with the locals and became quite popular there. It got the point when I'd walk in, if the bar was packed, there'd be like 7 different people all across the place trying to get me to come hang with them (DHV, amirite?).

Building a reputation like this is good for self-esteem and confidence, so I think this is a great place to start for guys who feel socially awkward and anxious, as it removes all the pickup anxiety bullshit. Just focus on being social and warm with people and getting laid will happen naturally. 

Also, it's good for just learning how to have conversations and connect with people. I sat there many nights just having deep conversations with all sorts of people. They weren't used to having such deep conversations and they loved me for it. I spent many nights just conversing with old men and women, and I enjoyed it. Had hundreds, if not thousands of conversations and hardly ever had to deal with approach anxiety, because things would just unfold organically. 

So like I said, it's the easy path. The key is to just open up and be friendly, smile a lot, laugh hard, and have fun. You have to calibrate it but this should be the default, and people will like you and the fuzz will flow.

Edited July 6 by Joshe

[aurum]

1 hour ago, Joshe said:

You gotta find a good bar. 

When I was 21, I was socially anxious but I decided to start going to a bar every Friday and Saturday night. I'd sit by myself and just be nice and polite to people and warm up slowly to them. Over time, I built a reputation with the locals and became quite popular there. It got the point when I'd walk in, if the bar was packed, there'd be like 7 different people all across the place trying to get me to come hang with them (DHV, amirite?).

Building a reputation like this is good for self-esteem and confidence, so I think this is a great place to start for guys who feel socially awkward and anxious, as it removes all the pickup anxiety bullshit. Just focus on being social and warm with people and getting laid will happen naturally. It's easier than going to a fucking dog park or something. 

Also, it's good for just learning how to have conversations and connect with people. I sat there many nights just having deep conversations with all sorts of people. They weren't used to having such deep conversations and they loved me for it. I spent many nights just conversing with old men and women, and I enjoyed it. Had hundreds, if not thousands of conversations and hardly ever had to deal with approach anxiety, because things would just unfold organically. 

So like I said, it's the easy path. The key is to just open up and be friendly, smile a lot, laugh hard, and have fun. You have to calibrate it but this should be the default, and people will like you and the fuzz will flow. 

I think your advice is good for most guys if they're just looking to overcome social anxiety and get laid a bit.

It's a question of what your goals are.

If you want the most attractive women, it's hard to escape going to nightclubs. These kind of women just don't go to local dive bars typically. They're usually at some exclusive section at a nightclub you can't even get into. And then after they're going to some private mansion party. Or she's working the club, and she's just going to go home after it closes and you're long gone.

The competition curve for these women is not linear, it's hyperbolic. You're not longer competing with regular dudes, you're now competing with celebrities, professional athletes, influencers, high-level promoters, rich trust-fund kids, famous musicians, socialites, hospitality insiders, foreign billionaires etc.

It's like going from playing football with your neighborhood friends to playing in the NFL.

And yeah, most guys are never going to be able to play in the NFL. So you've got to know what's realistic for you. In that sense your advice is probably better.

Succeeding in these kind of environments typically require you to build a social circle. Similar to how you did at your local bar, but now within those top nightclubs and other ancillary events associated with that social scene. So it's not just cold-approach pickup.

Basically it's about applying the principles you suggested, but now in extreme high-status environments. 

Edited July 6 by aurum

[RendHeaven]

5 hours ago, aurum said:

Basically it's about applying the principles you suggested, but now in extreme high-status environments. 

pshh, you're being far too serious and analytical, mr. aurum

joshe clearly knows his stuff so I'm just gonna follow his advice and "have fun" and "be myself" and I'm gonna get all the hottest girls and I definitely won't eat shit or run headfirst into cold hard reality

[aurum]

13 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

pshh, you're being far too serious and analytical, mr. aurum

joshe clearly knows his stuff so I'm just gonna follow his advice and "have fun" and "be myself" and I'm gonna get all the hottest girls and I definitely won't eat shit or run headfirst into cold hard reality

To be fair to him, I don't think his advice was meant to suggest it would attract the hottest girls. Just that it will get you laid and help you overcome social anxiety. Which I agree it could.

Most guys are never going to seriously go after the most attractive women. And for good reason. They will not succeed.

Edited July 7 by aurum

[Emerald]

On 7/5/2025 at 11:50 PM, aurum said:

Bars are not superior to nightclubs for approaching. They are too small, unless you live in a city like Miami where even the bars are practically nightclubs.

Also, the most attractive women are typically at nightclubs rather than bars.

@Joshe's advice is a lot more realistic and helpful for guys who are struggling with dating, as it will teach them how to be a normal social guy and to cultivate a warm social circle.

The crisis affecting young men isn't that they aren't getting the hottest women.

The crisis is that they're isolated and not connecting with any women (or people) at all. And pick-up artistry can't solve that issue... and will likely exacerbate it because it doesn't teach socializing under normal circumstances.

Pick-up is fine as a supplement for men who already have a warm social circle and who have already developed socialization skills.

But young guys now aren't developing a warm social circle as easily because the social landscape has changed to where people aren't interacting in person as often.

Consider that, being a millennial, you have a lot of those needs already met. So, you can afford to dabble around with pick-up.

But these younger guys don't have such a luxury, as their social support systems for interacting with women have worn thin. And they have to learn to initiate community for themselves if they want to be able to have sex, have a girlfriend, wife, children, etc.

[aurum]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

@Joshe's advice is a lot more realistic and helpful for guys who are struggling with dating, as it will teach them how to be a normal social guy and to cultivate a warm social circle.

The crisis affecting young men isn't that they aren't getting the hottest women.

The crisis is that they're isolated and not connecting with any women (or people) at all. And pick-up artistry can't solve that issue... and will likely exacerbate it because it doesn't teach socializing under normal circumstances.

Pick-up is fine as a supplement for men who already have a warm social circle and who have already developed socialization skills.

But young guys now aren't developing a warm social circle as easily because the social landscape has changed to where people aren't interacting in person as often.

Consider that, being a millennial, you have a lot of those needs already met. So, you can afford to dabble around with pick-up.

But these younger guys don't have such a luxury, as their social support systems for interacting with women have worn thin. And they have to learn to initiate community for themselves if they want to be able to have sex, have a girlfriend, wife, children, etc.

I agree getting the hottest women is not the problem for most guys. I don't even think they will succeed in that endeavor.

I also agree that Joshe's advice was mostly fine. I don't really have a problem with what he said.

I'm pointing out the limitations for the minority of guys who might be interested in that, and to disrupt any fantasies there are about dating the women typically considered the most attractive.

If a guy thinks that going out to dive bar is going to get him the hottest women, that's a fantasy. And he needs to pop that.

Also, I think you might be misunderstanding the order of operations for pickup. You do pickup precisely because you don't have a social circle and need to meet people.

That's exactly what it was like when I moved to Miami. I knew absolutely no one, and so I had to approach a lot more people before I had the luxury of coasting off a group of friends.

Because these guys are often socially awkward, they're not going to have a social circle. I've meet many of them. So are they supposed to just wait for a social circle to materialize?

They have to initiate lots of conversations.

You don't have to think about it as pickup per se. You could think about it as social circle building.

But pickup is motivating for many guys. Young guys are mostly immature and aren't motivated by community. They want to meet women. That's the carrot for them.

Also, often pickup becomes a great way to meet other guys in your local area. Your "pickup friends" become your actual friends, through the shared bond that is the hell of cold approach. Guys bond well when they have a challenge to tackle together. So there's the start of your social circle.

I know guys who were originally "pickup friends" who are all friends years later and in each other's weddings. That's the kind of real bond you can form.

Edited July 7 by aurum

[aurum]

Watch this if you want to challenge your fantasies about where the most attractive women are.

This is the kind of thing your 10 is doing while you're at a dive bar having deep conversations with old people:

https://youtu.be/qysTp512dfA?si=K3oe6NqveYJNAh-s

 

Edited July 7 by aurum

[Joshe]

2 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

joshe clearly knows his stuff so I'm just gonna follow his advice and "have fun" and "be myself" and I'm gonna get all the hottest girls and I definitely won't eat shit or run headfirst into cold hard reality

I didn’t mean to imply you’d be bagging 10s, nor that any of it is a total cake walk. Coming out of your shell is the first step. And that step is a whole lot easier when you’re not operating from a gaming other people mindset, and turns out, makes getting laid relatively easy. This should be common sense for a self-aware adult.

Also, the guys who are struggling should be happy to start from the bottom and not be expecting to pull dimes. Who in their right mind thinks you start at the top?

Also, ideally, one would transcend their unconscious pursuit of human female trophies by the time they hit 30. If you’re over 30 and still taking pickup seriously, to the point where you study the mating habits and social circles of dime pieces, you got issues. Very likely over-compensating for your earlier years. 

I kept trophies for a long time. Pictures and videos of my conquests. Then I became a big boy and deleted them from my hard drive.

Edited July 7 by Joshe

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

This is the kind of thing your 10 is doing while you're at a dive bar having deep conversations with old people:

I don’t live that life anymore. Grew out of it, but even still, I’d stick with the old people. Have fun collecting your trophies. Miami explains a lot. Super competitive ethos. Trophies are important in Miami. Cringe city. 

Edited July 7 by Joshe