Is the US now at war with Iran? (US vs. Iran Discussion)

[Inliytened1]

16 minutes ago, zazen said:

I get you. Using those distinctions I provided helps us in understanding the situation. For example, if theres a imperial power with globalist ambitions looking to destroy anything in its way, and with the means to do so - that is a clear threat to survival, which is why the West had to act out of survivalist logic.

Unfortunately it involved distorting our morality in the process. That’s the shit part about survival and war.

 

 

Japan was proud.  We had to break them and that was the only way.  They were not going to surrender.   It took them enough to get involved to begin with.  So..when you live by the sword you die by it.  And that's what happened.  Like Shogun.

As for morality - don't hold that too closely.  One must be flexible and fluid.  If you hold onto your constructions too tightly then you are in for a letdown.   Constructions are meant to be torn down.

 

Edited yesterday at 02:04 PM by Inliytened1

[Wilhelm44]

3 hours ago, zazen said:

I agree - but this can easily become philosophical bypassing as @Inliytened1 said. It can paralyze us into in-action if we abstract completely away from the surface because we make things too broad to tackle. Taken to the extreme we could just say ''God did it as he started this whole thing'' - but it's not pragmatic or helpful.  

That's one issue with the spiritual non-dual community. The non-dual world may bring peace, but it doesn't bring us protection from the dual world we live in. Non-duality transcends good, bad and evil but doesn't negate them in our dual experience which we have to contend with.

I was talking about power because you previously mentioned how war is war - meaning any use of power needed to ensure survival is justified. I was trying to explain that there's a line where survival logic (deterrent based) becomes empire logic (domination based) - and how that extends to politics. The right wing emphasizes power and accumulating more (capitalism) while the left wing emphasizes principles and morality through equality (socialism). We can't just succumb to our use of power without any principles (war is war, might makes right). That's been the core tension in human history: between power (to survive, dominate and accumulate)  and principle (to thrive, dignify and guide power with meaning and morality).

I wasn't giving a pass or justifying - only understanding. The same way Zionists want people to understand why Israel is acting the way it is - which I also outlined.

That's why I said Nazism and ISIS are Evil - they completely invert morality.  Evil is literally Live spelled backwards (inverted). Devil spelled backwards is lived  - the opposite of that which lived. That's why in Satanism everything is about inversion.

Moral distortion (due to survival pressures) or moral suppression-disengagement (due to cold calculations for domination and empire) can still do harm - but moral inversion literally calls that harm good or sacred, it makes domination righteous.

Like you said, Israel has a tyrant like Bibi who is hell bent on domination - he suppresses morality for empire. But Israel also has fanatical and puritanical elements such as Ben Gvir or Smotrich who are much more ideological.

The idea of Zionism started with survival based morality (we need a safe place to live) - it became distorted once they had to confront people living there already. Self-determination is moral clarity, self-determination at the expense of others is moral distortion - which requires the suppression of morality in order to dominate that reality into existence. This also had and still has elements of ideological fanatics who view domination as righteous  - the kahanist and messianic Zionists. That's where morality gets inverted similar to Nazism and ISIS.

Hence why Zionism isn’t a monolith and there are different interpretations and manifestations of it.

I hear you, I wasn't talking about bypassing or inaction, simply pointing to the futility of figuring out which country is more to blame than another. 

[Husseinisdoingfine]

BREAKING: Iran's Parliament announces that Iran is seeking to pass a bill suspending all cooperation with the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), meaning no more inspections from international bodies.

https://t.me/Middle_East_Spectator/20883

[Twentyfirst]

39 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Japan was proud.  We had to break them and that was the only way.  They were not going to surrender.   It took them enough to get involved to begin with.  So..when you live by the sword you die by it.  And that's what happened.  Like Shogun.

As for morality - don't hold that too closely.  One must be flexible and fluid.  If you hold onto your constructions too tightly then you are in for a letdown.   Constructions are meant to be torn down.

 

You swallowed everything the American boomers fed you like a good boy, didn't ya?

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

You swallowed everything the American boomers fed you like a good boy, didn't ya?

Living the dream baby.

[SOUL]

Bibi is Trump's Daddy.

If someone tries to suggest it's only about 'what is now' it lacks understanding of  how 'now' is actually every moment up till now like a wave isn't just what is cresting on the beach, it's the ocean. The iceberg isn't just what pops above the water and can be seen, there's most of it unseen below the water.

This is how 'time' manifests, it's not just little bits streaming past our eyes moment by moment, that is just our perception of it. Time is an unfolding and every 'moment' holds the totality of 'now' in it as the absolute it is, not just the fragment that appears to us.

What does this mean for the middle east? Contemplate it with this is mind and maybe it will reveal itself to your perception, I can't explain it in one post on a forum. 

Edited 16 hours ago by SOUL

[PurpleTree]

5 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Japan was proud.  We had to break them and that was the only way.  They were not going to surrender.   

All of that is just an opinion not “truth”

You don’t know what should have could have would have happened.

Were they proud and strong? Sure. So were the Germans. And many say bombing Dresden the way it was (mostly women and children) was a crime against humanity. But it wasn’t nuked either. History is written by the victor and a lot of that “it was the only way” type of stuff is just a story.

[Inliytened1]

38 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

All of that is just an opinion not “truth”

You don’t know what should have could have would have happened.

Were they proud and strong? Sure. So were the Germans. And many say bombing Dresden the way it was (mostly women and children) was a crime against humanity. But it wasn’t nuked either. History is written by the victor and a lot of that “it was the only way” type of stuff is just a story.

What am i supposed to do with you Purple. 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 07:45 PM by Inliytened1

[PurpleTree]

 

[PurpleTree]

 

[Inliytened1]

19 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

 

Badass.

[Jodistrict]

7 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

You swallowed everything the American boomers fed you like a good boy, didn't ya?

That actually came from the World War II generation.  The justifications came from the Truman administration.  I don't know if the boomers really bought it.  Also, 70 scientists at the Manhattan Project opposed its use and signed the Szilard Petition asking Truman to consider other alternatives.

[Inliytened1]

4 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

All of that is just an opinion not “truth”

You don’t know what should have could have would have happened.

Were they proud and strong? Sure. So were the Germans. 

That's exactly the point.  Hitler committed suicide in a bunker over pride.  So now who do you think was the biggest hero of WW2? I'll tell you who I think it was if you share first.

[PurpleTree]

19 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

That's exactly the point.  Hitler committed suicide in a bunker over pride.  So now who do you think was the biggest hero of WW2? I'll tell you who I think it was if you share first.

I don’t really have an opinion who was the biggest hero. It’s just a story at this point imo. Maybe a Nazi who disobeyed orders or recently i’ve heard stories of many french women were raped by american soldiers, some of their men were shot by these soldiers. American soldiers wanted to rape a young french woman/girl but her mother offered herself instead. Thy raped her at gun point. Maybe she was the biggest hero.

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I don’t really have an opinion who was the biggest hero. It’s just a story at this point imo. Maybe a Nazi who disobeyed orders or recently i’ve heard stories of many french women were raped by american soldiers, some of their men were shot by these soldiers. American soldiers wanted to rape a young french woman/girl but her mother offered herself instead. Thy raped her at gun point. Maybe she was the biggest hero.

I never thought of it that way.  Yes.  And what about all the Jews that survived the camps?  Perhaps they were the true heros.

But my favorite leaders were Churchill and Eisenhower.  I think both portrayed amazing courage in the face of imminent doom.   

Edited 22 hours ago by Inliytened1

[PurpleTree]

27 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I never thought of it that way.  Yes.  And what about all the Jews that survived the camps?  Perhaps they were the true heros.

But my favorite leaders were Churchill and Eisenhower.  I think both portrayed amazing courage in the face of imminent doom.   

I mean I guess it depends on how you define hero. Is it someone in a position of power over others who uses the power wisely? Is it someone who makes a non selfish decision? Is it someone who keeps his humanity in a non human time?  Someone who risks their own safety and wellbeing for others?

I said the woman because she offered herself to the soldiers instead of her daughter. But yea i’m sure there were many heroes in the concentration camps who tried to make life more bearable for others and so on.

Edited 22 hours ago by PurpleTree

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I mean I guess it depends on how you define hero. Is it someone in a position of power over others who uses the power wisely? Is it someone who makes a non selfish decision? Is it someone who keeps his humanity in a non human time? 

I said the woman because she offered herself to the soldiers instead of her daughter. But yea i’m sure there were many heroes in the concentration camps who tried to make life more bearable for others and so on.

France surrendered rather fast and then it was up to Great Britain and the USA to prevent fascism and Naszim from becoming the world order.  Could you imagine?  I think i would rather have Darth Vader run things.

Edited 22 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@PurpleTree

Winston Churchill literally saved us.  We stood on the brink of annihilation and he has brought us back.  @zazen this is part of your heritage and I hope you realize how great this man was.

Edited 19 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Atb210201]

I'll ask again.

Does any of you guys living in America know anything about Q?

The Qanon?

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

I'll ask again.

Does any of you guys living in America know anything about Q?

The Qanon?

What about it?