Is the US now at war with Iran? (US vs. Iran Discussion)

[Inliytened1]

17 minutes ago, zazen said:

Hezbollah came out of reaction to Israel’s invasion and occupation of Southern Lebanon in 1982.

 

So they came out of reaction in 2023 for something in 1982.  Nice pull.  What else are you gonna pull out your arse?

 

20 minutes ago, zazen said:

 

Hamas came out of reaction to Israeli occupation, dispossession and denial of Palestinians right to self-determination, October 7th was a brutal outburst in reaction to being under a brutal seige for 16 years.

 

Fair. I'll give you that.

 

21 minutes ago, zazen said:

.You think because someone starts something that gives you the right to end things however you want and just dismiss it as “it’s war bro, shit happens”. That’s just Darwinian might makes right logic which is the opposite of what makes people civilised and humane.

Listen to yourself bro.  When someone starts something they aim to end you.  You take whatever means necessary to prevent that.

[zazen]

31 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Listen to yourself bro.  When someone starts something they aim to end you.  You take whatever means necessary to prevent that

By that logic, anyone who ‘’starts something’’ opens the door for any response, by any means necessary.

Applied universally: the US overthrew Iran’s government in 1953, invaded Iraq, bombed Libya, occupied Afghanistan, backed coups and funded militants - does that mean any group that views itself as wronged now has license to do whatever it takes to end the threat?

If so, that’s justifying Al-Qaeda, ISIS, and every suicide bombing framed as retaliation. If “whatever means necessary’’ is valid when you feel existentially threatened, then it’s valid for everyone.

You can’t excuse away disproportionate violence like nukes on Japan for example “listen to yourself bro”. The US wasn’t even under any threat when they dropped them. It wasn’t for protection but to project power.

[sholomar]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/terrorism-prevention-thomas-fugate-trump-b2774791.html

A 22-year-old college grad with no security experience is now leading a government terror prevention team: ‘Putting the intern in charge’

 

https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1936750454270247004

 

Edited 20 hours ago by sholomar

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, zazen said:

By that logic, anyone who ‘’starts something’’ opens the door for any response, by any means necessary.

 

Well yes. It does.  Honestly if your existence is threatened you have every justification to prevent that.  It's called self defense.

 

5 minutes ago, zazen said:

 The US wasn’t even under any threat when they dropped them. It wasn’t for protection but to project power.

Yes they were.  This is gaslighting at the highest level. 

[LordFall]

@Jayson G Politics is a complex system but a good concept is a tree is identified by its fruit. Every nation is corrupt to an extent; that's human nature but look at the quality of life under the US regime and the Israeli regime. Drastically different level of freedom than both the Hamas regime and the Iranian regime and most islamic regimes.

Why the fuck does Iran need to have 8 nuclear facilities? If they were truly well meaning they can't they give up any nuclear technology in a show of good faith and do their power generation through conventional means? The quid pro quo argument that Israel has nuclear weapons therefore they are also entitled to them is insane, we agreed to non nuclear proliferation decades ago. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. The civilians are indeed the ones that are gonna suffer and die en masse for the greed, arrogance and ultimately violent aims of the regime. 

2 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Why do you ignore this?

 

Well what are you saying that the US should've not invaded and taken over Saddam Hussein? Perhaps you are right but I disagree but that's still a separate issue than Iran developing nuclear weapons. 

[Inliytened1]

@zazen look - let's just get it out in the open that even though you live in the US you don't support the United States in any way.  In fact it seems you support Iran and its proxies in its political views and goals. Now, i'm not quite sure yet on your religious beliefs, but not important.  What bothers me is not that you don't support the country you live in, but it's that you don't want to look at things unbiased.  All you want to see is how right the groups you defend are and how wrong everyone else is or whomever opposed them.   To me, as bright as you are - that leaves you limited.

Edited 20 hours ago by Inliytened1

[BlessedLion]

4 hours ago, Daniel Balan said:

I'd rather not debate anyone. Debates are pointless, person 1 defends his biases person 2 defends their biases. Never are you able to convince someone of something they have a bias against. So I prefer to work on myself rather than to call names to some unknown on a forum. I prefer to admit that I don't know and to not take any side, after all why does the opinion of a man in the middle of nowhere change the politics and war dynamics of 8 billion people? I prefer to enjoy time with myself. I've been in few debates on this forum myself and it just ruined my day. I felt like shit, and all my peace of mind vanished debating a person I will probably never meet ever IRL. 

Wise 

Edited 20 hours ago by BlessedLion
Shorten

[PurpleTree]

22 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@zazen look - let's just get it out in the open that even though you live in the US you don't support the United States in any way.  In fact it seems you support Iran and its proxies in its political views and goals. Now, i'm not quite sure yet on your religious beliefs, but not important.  What bothers me is not that you don't support the country you live in, but it's that you don't want to look at things unbiased.  All you want to see is how right the groups you defend are and how wrong everyone else is or whomever opposed them.   To me, as bright as you are - that leaves you limited.

He doesn’t live in the US though.

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

He doesn’t live in the US though.

I thought i saw where he did.  Ok then.   

[PurpleTree]

53 minutes ago, LordFall said:

@Jayson G 

Well what are you saying that the US should've not invaded and taken over Saddam Hussein? Perhaps you are right but I disagree but that's still a separate issue than Iran developing nuclear weapons. 

Yea and also the guy in the video cannot be trusted in any way shape or form. He lies like in the video. He kills Palestinians in droves (women and children). The International criminal court has a warrant for this guy. Many Israelis are protesting against him and his gang. He’s corrupt. He wants to drag the US into more endless wars against his enemies. I could go on.

Edited 19 hours ago by PurpleTree

[LordFall]

@PurpleTree You're making an epistemic blunder here though. The personal character of Netanyahu is obviously related to the actions of Israel but not the totality of it.

Is Iran developing nuclear weapons? Yes or no?

Should they be allowed to develop those weapons if so? Yes or no?

You can also do the same thing with the Gaza conflict, was Gaza ruled by a violent terrorist group yes or no? We can agree that the actions of the IDF on the palestinian people have been disproportionate but they were attacked in a violent terrorist attack and decided to defend themselves which is justified, correct or not correct? 

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, LordFall said:

@PurpleTree You're making an epistemic blunder here though. The personal character of Netanyahu is obviously related to the actions of Israel but not the totality of it.

Is Iran developing nuclear weapons? Yes or no?

Should they be allowed to develop those weapons if so? Yes or no?

You can also do the same thing with the Gaza conflict, was Gaza ruled by a violent terrorist group yes or no? We can agree that the actions of the IDF on the palestinian people have been disproportionate but they were attacked in a violent terrorist attack and decided to defend themselves which is justified, correct or not correct? 

And they are not even your allies ouchie.

Here talking about the gullibility of Americans.

 

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, LordFall said:

@PurpleTree You're making an epistemic blunder here though. The personal character of Netanyahu is obviously related to the actions of Israel but not the totality of it.

Is Iran developing nuclear weapons? Yes or no?

Should they be allowed to develop those weapons if so? Yes or no?

You can also do the same thing with the Gaza conflict, was Gaza ruled by a violent terrorist group yes or no? We can agree that the actions of the IDF on the palestinian people have been disproportionate but they were attacked in a violent terrorist attack and decided to defend themselves which is justified, correct or not correct? 

@LordFall holding it down! Well done. 

Edited 19 hours ago by Inliytened1

[LordFall]

@PurpleTree You just made another one though. Where in that clip does it say he's not an ally of americans? He talks about his ability to maneuver politically like even any american politician probably does behind close doors. I would read books like 48 laws of power that break down this sort of power and influence game pretty clearly. Politics is not a fun game but it is the reality of our existence on this planet. 

@Inliytened1 Thank you! I understand that it's a painful topic for all of us but we're only gonna get out of this mess and get to the world peace and global unity that I know we can by having intellectual honesty i.e. epistemic integrity with these topic as that's ultimately what aligns with truth. 

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, LordFall said:

 we're only gonna get out of this mess and get to the world peace and global unity that I know we can by having intellectual honesty 

Having intellectual honesty by following pathological liars and crooks into another war? How many iraqis died? You’re funny  

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Having intellectual honesty by following pathological liars and crooks into another war? How many iraqis died? You’re funny  

Bro...where you from? Specifically. Just curous.

[LordFall]

4 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Having intellectual honesty by following pathological liars and crooks into another war? How many iraqis died? You’re funny  

Red Herring

A red herring is a logical fallacy where someone introduces irrelevant information to distract from the original argument. This can derail the conversation and shift focus away from the main issue.

Non Sequitur

A non sequitur is a statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument, but it usually refers to a conclusion that doesn’t fit rather than just going off topic.

Is Iran developing nuclear weapons? Yes or no?

Should they be allowed to develop those weapons if so? Yes or no?

What do you mean following him in a war?

I understand that you don't like the situation but you're objectively not saying points that make sense. Ask AI yourself if you'd like. 

 

[Raze]

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/22/us/politics/iran-uranium-stockpile-whereabouts.html
 

Quote

U.S. Officials Concede They Don’t Know Whereabouts of Iran’s Uranium Stockpile

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-06-22/ty-article-live/.premium/netanyahu-says-u-s-attacks-on-irans-nuclear-sites-were-fully-coordinated-with-israel/00000197-95b2-db6f-a9ff-b7fe0eec0000
 

Quote

Israeli Officials Believe Fordow Nuclear Facility Seriously Damaged, Not Destroyed

Media will probably see this as a way to bait trump into more strikes by accusing him of failure.

[PurpleTree]

7 minutes ago, LordFall said:

 What do you mean following him in a war?

Alright you think it’s great and all. Good luck with your great epistemology and debating skills. I don’t really have an interest in convincing you either way.

Edited 19 hours ago by PurpleTree

[Inliytened1]

13 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Alright you think it’s great and all. Good luck with your great epistemology and debating skills. I don’t really have an interest in convincing you either way.

Cuz you ain't from US.  I wish for once all of you admitted your own biases. I did.  I had to as a mod.  I'm a jew.  So what.  But the thing is..there's some really hateful people here..and I would really like to know why.

Edited 18 hours ago by Inliytened1