Humanity Has Failed

[PurpleTree]

I think humanity has done quite well all things considered.

It hasn’t „failed“ at all.

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you raise children to hate a vastly superior enemy, and teach them that martyrdom and suicide are the supreme values, then don't complain when they exterminate you. You can do it, but there are consequences. It's like when the Nazis declared war on the entire world, weren't very clever, and then ended up destroying everything. Cause and effect. If you want war with someone ten times stronger, bad. It's better to compete with them in intelligence, in industry, even learn from them and collaborate with them, become their friends. Respect their religion and share your sacred places. How crazy, right? Much better to go and commit suicide with a huge bomb attached to your body at a crowded dinner. That's the wise way to act. 

Projection

I would rather die in suicide for a worthy cause than to die in combat to oppress people

[Oppositionless]

On 5/21/2025 at 0:07 AM, Someone here said:

So What I'm about to say may sound very detatched..but this is how i came to peace with such things ..

 these issues as you feel them are very much on a spectrum of potential heaviness or suffering ..."for humans". This doesn't mean these issues are that way "objectively".  They may not even be that much of a big deal to some humans going through them as well.  Yes they can be..but not always.  You also live knowing these things  go on all the time on earth since the beginning of time yet they don't weigh you down each time they happen.  They only impact you when they happen to you or you think about them.

It may start to dawn on you that there is a "indifference" to the world ..like these things are not good or bad as your signature says .This may require more "awakening" to see innately the truth of what I'm saying .. when a murder happens..a dog dies ..a monkey rapes another monkey..a meteor hits a planet . when a galaxy fades.... these are all just reality unfolding perfectly .God knows exactly what is he doing .even if not ..the deepest peace you will ever experience in your life will never come out of anything other than a life or death situation because only then you can see the indifference of the world and how beautiful this indifference actually is .

 

The universe doesn't care about us and that's a good thing. But I don't think being upset by horror is a weakness, it's a strength to be able to sit with that, to actually feel.

can you really believe that the people going through these things are okay with it? That it's not "that bad."?

Edited Saturday at 11:30 PM by Oppositionless

[Raze]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Really?i thought it was a reaction to the UN's decision to approve the creation of the State of Israel. I hadn't heard that Egypt and its allies attacked to prevent the genocide of Palestinians. 

They only invaded after israel already began expelling Palestinians, deir yassin was for example a motivator

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, after observing the troop grouping, knowing the attack plans and reading in the Egyptian press that Israel was going to be wiped off the map

There weren’t attack plans, Egypt believed Israel was planning to attack so it did a blockade. If you think blockades mean you started a war, then Hamas hasn’t started a single war as Israel blockaded Gaza first.

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, because they lost the war, if they would win, they would erase Israel from the map. Do you understand that they do that deal because they lost the war? It wasn't a friendly war to make deals, was with the idea of destruction. Well, was a war. 

False, they attacked to regain territory that they lost previously.

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, the far right government believes that the Palestinian must be expelled and for them Hamas is more convenient, same than the attack on 7 oct, probably they allowed it to destroy gaza, almost sure. 

So you admit it’s not about security but rather hatred and elimination of Palestinians

 

[Raze]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

There's a drift toward fanaticism in Israel, it's a fact, and more and more Israelis think the Palestinians should be expelled. This is what happens when there's a climate of constant war; hatred arises. This is how it's always been, and it's always been resolved, as we all know: by destroying the weakest. So, what should Hamas do? Kill more 18-year-old girls and parade their corpses amid the cheers of the population? It can do that, but it can't cry when the consequences come.

Do you think that the jews are bad and the Palestinian are good? Maybe it's a bit simplistic. Both want to survive, but if you are weaker, start a war is stupid.

No, both kill , but the Palestinian kill less because are weaker. If they were stronger, they would kill with a lot of happiness. Same than the Sioux, if they could, they wont left even one american alive. They have been victims because the only reason that they were weaker, in other case they would be executioners. When you're the weak one, fighting back automatically defines you as an idiot. You only go to war to win, not to have your people bombed.

In short, your idea about good and evil is so naive. Or maybe it's just because you are Muslim and you cheer your team, as everybody does?

 

- Again, fighting back when people try to steal your homes and keep you occupied is not “starting” it, it is self defense. When the occupiers try to genocide you they aren’t “giving consequences”, they’re engaging in the elimination you accuse Palestinians of. Palestinians have no other option because Israel was actively taking their homes, blockading them, and killing them.

 

- Weakness has nothing to do with who is the victim, the victims are the ones being occupied and brutalized, which was the Palestinians. It doesn’t matter if the Sioux were stronger or weaker, they were the victims because they were the ones being removed from their home

- I’m not a Muslim. It isn’t just Muslims siding against Israel. Nearly every single country votes against their occupation at the UN, and a recent global poll found israel was one of the most hated countries in the world. It’s just that some people have a basic moral center and dislike racist violence.

 

I’ve explained this to you I believe four times now, and each time you ignore that part of the comment and repeat what you already said. If you aren’t capable of addressing this don’t bother replying because it just goes nowhere.

Edited Saturday at 11:57 PM by Raze

[Raze]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Your analysis is extremely biased. First, Gaza was under Egyptian control, and the Egyptians didn't grant Egyptian nationality to Gazans and kept them in miserable conditions. Then Israel retook it and at one point withdrew, forcing thousands of settlers to leave.

The Palestinians elected Hamas, which has Israel's demise in its charter and periodically orchestrates attacks, so it was blocked. There were also two internal civil wars with thousands of Palestinian deaths. Hamas fires thousands of rockets at civilian areas, causing as much damage as it can.

No, first Gaza was the home of some Palestinians, than Israel ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homes and pushed them into Gaza. Egypt briefly controlled it but even they didn’t brutalize Palestinians nearly as much as Israel. Israel constantly engaged in raids into Gaza to attack the people there. Such as in 48 when they poisoned a well used by Arabs to try and kill civilians or in 56 when they briefly occupied it and made civilians line up on a wall and shot them, ultimately killing hundreds.

When Israel retook it they began colonizing it and allowing in violent settlers to seize territory and demolish Palestinian homes. Later they realized it wasn’t worth the cost and moved the settlers to the West Bank.

When Hamas wrote its charter it was during the first intifada. In the first year of the first intifada Palestinians killed 0 Israelis, Israelis killed 22 Palestinians including multiple children, in the second year Palestinians killed six Israelis and Israelis killed over 600 Palestinians. By the end of it Palestinian  had killed 110 Israelis (many soldiers or settlers) whereas Israelis killed 1100 Palestinians mostly civilians. IDF soldiers later testified they were ordered to snap the bones of protestors, including children. 

Palestinains voted for Hamas after a two state deal failed to materialize. Israel immediately tried to stage a violent coup which failed in Gaza then blockaded Gaza crushing their economy.

The civil wars didn’t kill thousands of civilians, and were supported by Israel to try and remove Hamas. Israel’s blockade itself collectively punished the civilians, rockets were in response to this.

[Breakingthewall]

30 minutes ago, Raze said:

 

30 minutes ago, Raze said:

They only invaded after israel already began expelling Palestinians, deir yassin was for example a motivator

Really do you think that they invaded Israel because they were worried about the Palestinian? Anyway, the violence begun much sooner 

 

1. 1920 Riots (Jerusalem)

First major outbreak of intercommunal violence.

Over 200 Jews injured, several killed.

The goal was to oppose Zionism and Jewish immigration.

2. Hebron Massacre (1929)

One of the worst incidents.

67 Jews were murdered, many mutilated.

Hebron had a long-standing Jewish community for centuries.

Some Arabs protected their Jewish neighbors, but the attack was large-scale.

3. Arab Revolt (1936–1939)

A national Palestinian rebellion against British rule and Jewish immigration.

Included killings and bombings targeting Jews and British officials.

Over 400 Jews were killed, dozens of settlements attacked.

In response, the Zionist movement further militarized its defense (e.g., Haganah, Irgun).

31 minutes ago, Raze said:

There weren’t attack plans, Egypt believed Israel was planning to attack so it did a blockade. If you think blockades mean you started a war, then Hamas hasn’t started a single war as Israel blockaded Gaza first.

 

35 minutes ago, Raze said:

 

Really?

Leading up to June 1967, tensions between Israel and its Arab neighbors — particularly Egypt, Syria, and Jordan — escalated dramatically. Several key events occurred:

Egypt expelled UN peacekeepers from the Sinai Peninsula (May 1967), who had been stationed there since 1956.

Egypt moved 100,000 troops and heavy equipment into the Sinai, right along the Israeli border.

President Nasser of Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran, a key shipping route for Israeli oil imports — which Israel had declared would be a casus belli (cause for war).

Military alliances formed between Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and Iraq — all threatening to destroy Israel.

Syrian artillery bombarded northern Israel from the Golan Heights almost daily in the months prior.

Why Did Israel Launch a Preemptive Strike?

Faced with these threats, Israel's leadership believed a coordinated Arab attack was imminent. Israeli intelligence indicated:

Egypt was days or hours away from launching an assault.

The Arab armies together outnumbered Israel significantly in men, tanks, and aircraft.

On June 5, 1967, Israel launched a preemptive airstrike that destroyed most of Egypt’s air force on the ground within hours — giving Israel air superiority from the start.

 Was It Justified?

Israel argued it was a defensive strike to prevent annihilation.

Arab states claimed Israel was the aggressor and used the attack to justify counterattacks.

The UN and most of the international community later recognized that while Israel struck first, the war had been provoked by Arab military mobilization and blockades, making Israel's actions preemptive rather than aggressive in intent.

Israel attacked first in 1967 not out of expansionism, but due to a perceived existential threat from surrounding Arab states. The move was preemptive, aimed at neutralizing what appeared to be an imminent multi-front invasion.

35 minutes ago, Raze said:

False, they attacked to regain territory that they lost previously.

That's true

37 minutes ago, Raze said:

So you admit it’s not about security but rather hatred and elimination of Palestinians

They think that it's impossible live together with the Palestinian then they want to expulse them, after a century of war. I'm not saying that it's "good", just that it's not so strange. 

 

[Twentyfirst]

@Breakingthewall I think your issue is you still somehow think the Arabs don't like Jews because they have anti semitism rather than reaction to Zionist aggression 

[Breakingthewall]

6 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

@Breakingthewall I think your issue is you still somehow think the Arabs don't like Jews because they have anti semitism rather than reaction to Zionist aggression 

The Arabs don't like Jews because they think that they are stealing their land, not because anti semitism, and because they are profaning their sacred places, and the Jews say that the land was empty and the Arabs were hostile from the beginning due religious issue. 

It's a very complex problem, but the fact is that the jews are there and they are not going to leave unless the Arabs kill all of them. So what is the solution? Destroy Israel? I don't think that this is a possibility. Then? Kill girls and parade them in the cities to be bombed after? Seems absolutely stupid, they are going to be destroyed doing that, without getting nothing, except the paradise of course. It's a destructive ideology imo, but it's what it is, then don't complain if bombs fall, they already knew it. 

That's true that the jews invaded the land with their immigration, but what to do now? Make them abandon Israel? How? Seems that first they would expulse all the Palestinian, they are there from a century, so it's a fact. The only possibility is a big war where all the Muslim world destroy Israel. Is it necessary? They have nukes , would be not easy to do that, maybe impossible. Just for religion, because nobody cares about Erdogan killing kurds or the war in Yemen with 370 k killed

 

Edited Sunday at 08:26 AM by Breakingthewall

[PurpleTree]

You know yesterday in Rome it was 31C 

(87.8 F for our American friends)

It can get much hotter but people were sweating. Older Busses were like saunas.

I saw this couple with a dog. It was a big nice furry dog. He was really hot. His tongue was out and his feet hurt from the hot pavement. Whenever he saw shade he tried to stay in the shade. The couple were shopping and dragging him along and he tried to get into a shop because of the heat. 
 

And i thought dear golly god. What if this dog was in the middle East? With the heat? He would surely just lay down and cry for god to release him from this brutal world.

 

[zazen]

@Breakingthewall You and Raze are debating every detail of who started each individual fight - but the wider issue is what conditions are causing the fight which is the initial taking of land and continued occupation till today.

If there’s a cessation of violence for some time and things flare up again, that’s expected when the conditions for violence haven’t ceased. It’s like if you pin me down and I fight back but take a breather, then start fighting again and you say I”m a violent terrorist for breaking the ceasefire - even though you still have me pinned to the floor lol

You’re saying what the Palestinians shouldn’t do or want - which is the maximalist position of wanting to exterminate the other side and the entirety of Israel. That’s definitely true and self-defeating - though I doubt that’s a majority belief among Palestinians. The ones purported to have that belief, Hamas - have even said they will not be in political power as long as Palestinians get a state.

The question then is what should they do? Obviously not the minimalist position of just being apathetic and accepting their condition. How can they develop themselves economically etc like you mentioned when that is blocked via a blockade. Also why would they prioritise that when it goes against Maslow hierarchy of needs. No one’s prioritising reading Eckhart Tolle whilst being occupied and blockaded in a tiny enclave.

The fact is that the world already has consensus on what should be done - it’s just not being allowed to happen by the very few. And the Palestinians are finger wagged and gaslit as backwards and uncivilised when the “civilized” world can’t even uphold an already agreed upon enshrined right.

Edited Sunday at 10:24 AM by zazen

[Breakingthewall]

24 minutes ago, zazen said:

The fact is that the world already has consensus on what should be done - it’s just not being allowed to happen by the very few. And the Palestinians are finger wagged and gaslit as backwards and uncivilised when the “civilized” world can’t even uphold a enshrined right already  agreed upon.

The world agrees on the two-state solution, but Israel isn't colonizing the West Bank just to steal land. There's land elsewhere. This is partly because they don't want an organized West Bank, as it's in a dominant geographical position, above Tel Aviv. A perfect place to bomb. Also there are the fanatics who want the biblical borders. It's a big problem. No one in the world knows what the solution is, because there isn't one now. Changes have to happen for a solution to be possible. 

In my opinion what Palestinian should do is peaceful resistance, grow in education and intelligence, don't kill no one jew, never. Resistance as Gandhi. If they do, no one will support Israel if they kill Palestinian. But if they parade teenager girls corpses in a van around the city, then the thing is more difficult.

Edited Sunday at 10:22 AM by Breakingthewall

[Twentyfirst]

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The Arabs don't like Jews because they think that they are stealing their land, not because anti semitism, and because they are profaning their sacred places, and the Jews say that the land was empty and the Arabs were hostile from the beginning due religious issue. 

The end of the hate will be when Zionism is gone. Simple

Quote

It's a very complex problem, but the fact is that the jews are there and they are not going to leave unless the Arabs kill all of them. So what is the solution? Destroy Israel? I don't think that this is a possibility. Then? Kill girls and parade them in the cities to be bombed after? Seems absolutely stupid, they are going to be destroyed doing that, without getting nothing, except the paradise of course. It's a destructive ideology imo, but it's what it is, then don't complain if bombs fall, they already knew it. 

Israelis complained more after one attack (which we are still hearing about today) than Palestinians after 20 months of Gaza seige. Stop saying any resistance they have will lead to their destruction. You are too confident in the Zionists saying they will keep you safe, they don't give a hell about you, you are just a number to them. If you don't suffer the consequences of these crimes then your kids and grandkids definitely will

Quote

That's true that the jews invaded the land with their immigration, but what to do now? Make them abandon Israel? How? Seems that first they would expulse all the Palestinian, they are there from a century, so it's a fact. The only possibility is a big war where all the Muslim world destroy Israel. Is it necessary? They have nukes , would be not easy to do that, maybe impossible. Just for religion, because nobody cares about Erdogan killing kurds or the war in Yemen with 370 k killed

 

Just remember without any of the lies or deception or theft. This is the true face of the Middle East. Once you accept this then you can see about being a guest on their land and neighbors of the region 

Edited Sunday at 12:43 PM by Twentyfirst

[Breakingthewall]

26 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

The end of the hate will be when Zionism is gone. Simple

That will only happen if Israel is totally destroyed. Since it has nuclear weapons, it will destroy its enemies before then. So, that idea seems unworkable, so we'd have to find another one.

28 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Just remember without any of the lies or deception or theft. This is the true face of the Middle East. Once you accept this then you can see about being a guest on their land and neighbors of the region 

The true face of middle east now is another. Palestinians must completely renounce violence, as it plays against them. The only reason Israel doesn't exterminate them is because of international public opinion; this international opinion is their strength. If they renounce violence and hold constant peaceful demonstrations and pressures, without stones, without violence, the Zionists will lose their reason. They may kill some, but they are already killing them. They must allow themselves to be killed without responding, to destroy Israel's image.

Don't kill teenager girls and expose their corpses; that works against them. They must stop being mentally retarded and become intelligent, or they will have no future. Launch rockets that don't do nothing is simply stupid, nonsense. 

[Someone here]

14 hours ago, Oppositionless said:

can you really believe that the people going through these things are okay with it? That it's not "that bad."?

No thats a misunderstanding of what I said . Nobody is going to enjoy being tortured to death .my point is being tortured to death and wars and diseases and deaths and all forms of evil is only evil relative to the human perspective. Sooner or later you gonna just realize that life never gets enough of fucking with you and throwing tomatoes at you ..so why not wise up and detach from your humanhood and by that suffering can't affect you ?  Is this spiritual bypassing and escapism?  NO. IT IS THE TRUTH THAT YOU ARE NOT A HUMAN AND THAT ALL THE SUFFERING OF HUMANITY DOESNT MEAN CRAP TO THE UNIVERSE OR GOD.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

Just remember without any of the lies or deception or theft. This is the true face of the Middle East. Once you accept this then you can see about being a guest on their land and neighbors of the region 

This is the fantasy that will kill a million Palestinians.

There never was a Palestinain state. A state requires a military to defend its borders.

Edited Sunday at 07:00 PM by Leo Gura

[Apparition of Jack]

6 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

Just remember without any of the lies or deception or theft. This is the true face of the Middle East. Once you accept this then you can see about being a guest on their land and neighbors of the region 

I think something like this is far more humane and achievable 

Edited Sunday at 06:36 PM by Apparition of Jack

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

I think something like this is far more humane and achievable 

That's a fantasy.

Jews will never accept this.

You might as well hope for Americans to give back land to the Native Americans and change the American flag with Native American symbols. Pure fantasy.

Edited Sunday at 06:53 PM by Leo Gura

[PurpleTree]

20 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

I think something like this is far more humane and achievable 

Or maybe you can ask the Brits to take it back and make a state for everyone. Or the Turks or the EU.

[Raze]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's a fantasy.

Jews will never accept this.

You might as well hope for Americans to give back land to the Native Americans and change the American flag with Native American symbols. Pure fantasy.

Is half of Americas population Native Americans? 

Edited Sunday at 07:02 PM by Raze