Humanity Has Failed

[Breakingthewall]

38 minutes ago, zazen said:

If Palestinians just sat there and read eckhart tolle do you think that would stop Israel? 

If they renounce violence and hold constant mass protests, world public opinion would force Israel to give in, but if they constantly kill, they are playing into the hands of those who seek greater Israel.

 

42 minutes ago, zazen said:

Palestinians are boxed into a system where even non-violent disruption is impossible or crushed brutally if it takes place

They do the intifadas, that were big movement, but violent. Then they do the game to ben gvir. If they would do the same without violence and with the goal of getting an state they will get it, but if the goal is the end of Israel they won't get nothing, just violence 

 

26 minutes ago, Raze said:

have told you three times now about the Arab peace initiative, which offers full normalization in exchange for a Palestinian state.

What part of this do you not get?

I don't understand why the day before Hamas bombed a lot of Jews, maybe the Jews, who are so crazy, misinterpreted it like they really didn't want peace. But maybe for you that's nothing, only the Jews are guilty because are evil, and the Palestinian are victims then of course they have the right of bombing or parade corpses of 18 years old girls when all the population cheers them. Maybe you are right, they could do, its just some legitimate manifestation of anger and nobody should get angry for those small things 

[zazen]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

If they renounce violence and hold constant mass protests, world public opinion would force Israel to give in, but if they constantly kill, they are playing into the hands of those who seek greater Israel

Are there any examples of occupation ending through peaceful resistance?

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

Are there any examples of occupation ending through peaceful resistance?

The occupation is not going to end, it's not an occupation, As long as they continue to think it's an occupation, there will be war. When the Jews began arriving, it was an unpopulated area; it was an immigration that occurred 100 years ago, many generations of Israeli have born there. I'm sorry, it's a shame, but it's a fact. If they continue to think in terms of occupation and armed resistance, every last Palestinian will be expelled. They should try to collaborate with the Jews, but since they can't seem to, and their culture is to be outraged victims full of hate, they will be expelled. And quite soon 

Edited June 4 by Breakingthewall

[zazen]

@Breakingthewall The official UK government website refers to Palestine as occupied territory. This isn’t Hamas or Al Jazeera either. UK is not only a close ally of Israel, but played a foundational role in founding it via the Balfour declaration.

If it’s not a occupation what would you call it?

 

The idea that the land was empty can be de-bunked by a quote from one of the Zionist leaders at the time:

“There is no misunderstanding Arab nationalism… It is not possible to bring them to accept the transformation of Palestine from an Arab country into a country with a Jewish majority.”

— Ze’ev Jabotinsky, 1923

If it was empty why would they need to refer to Arabs living on it resisting them.

The whole “a land without a people for a people without a land,” was a mythic justification with no basis in reality.

You just know it’s difficult to find an occupation that ended with peaceful resistance, thus your recommendation for them to do the same would be futile and would inevitably lead them to violence.

It would be great if they didn’t have to resort to violence, if non-violent methods like BDS weren’t literally banned, and the world’s superpower who enables Israel would ‘t keep vetoing peace and resolution…the latest from just a few hours ago:

 

https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/06/1164056

People will then flip around and bitch about me always bitching about the US. No shit Sherlock.

Edited June 4 by zazen

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

The occupation is not going to end, it's not an occupation,

Meanwhile here is Israel’s own Supreme Court saying they hold the territories in “belligerent occupation”.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220913053510/https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl-nat.nsf/46707c419d6bdfa24125673e00508145/09d47365bd007706c12575c20046ec2a

This is getting ridiculous, you’ve been discussing this here for nearly two years now and you still do not know basic things.

[Raze]

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

I don't understand why the day before Hamas bombed a lot of Jews, maybe the Jews, who are so crazy, misinterpreted it like they really didn't want peace. But maybe for you that's nothing, only the Jews are guilty because are evil, and the Palestinian are victims then of course they have the right of bombing or parade corpses of 18 years old girls when all the population cheers them. Maybe you are right, they could do, its just some legitimate manifestation of anger and nobody should get angry for those small things 

Notice how you were saying all Palestinians and Muslim states won’t accept it, and when I point out they do all you can do is revert to pointing out Hamas, much smaller at the time, did a single attack. This is called moving the goalposts. 

No matter how many times you are shown Arab states accepting it and Israel rejecting it, you always fall back on its the Arabs fault for not accepting it but also Israel is right to reject it and it’s the Arabs fault they reject it.

If Palestinians paraded the corpses of 10,000 young girls, they would still have killed a fraction of the girls  Israel had killed since its founding to before oct 6. If Palestinians then paraded the corpses of 10,000 children, they would have still paraded half the amount of children killed by Israel since Oct 7.

But you don’t think that justifies any sort of attack or resistance from Palestinians, yet a single girl killed by militants justified israel killing thousands of Palestinian girls, and somehow retroactively justified the thousands killed before that happened apparently. Why? The answer is because to you some human life is worth more than others.

Edited June 4 by Raze

[Raze]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

If they renounce violence and hold constant mass protests, world public opinion would force Israel to give in, but if they constantly kill, they are playing into the hands of those who seek greater Israel.

They do the intifadas, that were big movement, but violent. Then they do the game to ben gvir. If they would do the same without violence and with the goal of getting an state they will get it, but if the goal is the end of Israel they won't get nothing, just violence

The first intifada began overwhelmingly peaceful, in the first year Palestinians killed 0 Israelis, in the second they killed six which is still small for a massive protest of millions of people. Meanwhile in the first year israel killed 22, and in the second over 600.

The great march of return was overwhelmingly peaceful, there was some violence such as throwing flaming kites and rocks later on, but overall in the first weeks the only injury was one idf soldier who had a minor wrist thing. Meanwhile israel had snipers who purposefully targeted children, medics, and disabled people, and shot off their kneecaps. They created so many child amputees Gaza made a whole amputee soccer league.

Every year at the UN general assembly there is a vote on the resolution to the Palestinian occupation, and Israel votes against it and has the US veto it, That is a peaceful diplomatic resistance, and it is blocked.

The PA controls the West Bank and for the last decade has engaged in security collaboration with Israel. Meaning they actually help israel in arresting and killing palestinains. What did Israel do? They increased settlements and freely allow settlers to burn down homes and shoot and beat Palestinians. Even a high ranking Idf official admitted the government often helps these rampages.

Youve been told this all multiple times, but you just ignore it. The reality is Palestinians did collaborate with Jews as they lived peacefully with the Jewish minorities prior to Zionism, they ceased collaboration because Zionist militias were literally doing bombing of civilians and kicking them out of their home and shooting them when they try to return unarmed. Since then Palestinians have tried peaceful protests and diplomatic resolutions and Israel just blocks it and ramps up violence. 

You refuse to accept this, why? You need to believe that somehow the mass starvation and murder of children is justified, even to the point of contorting reality and ignoring the facts of the situation. All because you have to come to the conclusion it’s actually the fault of the children killed that they were killed.

Edited June 4 by Raze

[Breakingthewall]

59 minutes ago, Raze said:

Meanwhile here is Israel’s own Supreme Court saying they hold the territories in “belligerent occupation”.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220913053510/https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl-nat.nsf/46707c419d6bdfa24125673e00508145/09d47365bd007706c12575c20046ec2a

This is getting ridiculous, you’ve been discussing this here for nearly two years now and you still do not know basic things.

Maybe you it's you who don't understand anything , because you only see your Muslim perspective. Let me explain it to you, let's see if it sheds some light on your mind. Look, the Jews are fragmenting the West Bank and screwing the Palestinians because they're their enemies. Do you understand? If the Palestinians could, they'd kill all the Jews, and if the Jews could, they'd do the same. Do you know why? I'll explain it to you. Listen to this, because you're going to be perplexed: because they're enemies, and that's what enemies do. So, all that talk about the courts and rights is just nonsense. They're never going to let them found a state in the West Bank, because it would be a state... guess what! An enemy state!! And who wants enemy states next to their capital? The mentally retarded. Are the Jews mentally retarded? No!! Let's see if you understand this. It's simple. Friends, they love each other and live close together. Enemies, they hate each other and don't want to live close together. Is it unfair? It's also having a cancer, that's life. 

[Breakingthewall]

59 minutes ago, Raze said:

The first intifada began overwhelmingly peaceful, in the first year Palestinians killed 0 Israelis, in the second they killed six which is still small for a massive protest of millions of people. Meanwhile in the first year israel killed 22, and in the second over 600.

The great march of return was overwhelmingly peaceful, there was some violence such as throwing flaming kites and rocks later on, but overall in the first weeks the only injury was one idf soldier who had a minor wrist thing. Meanwhile israel had snipers who purposefully targeted children, medics, and disabled people, and shot off their kneecaps. They created so many child amputees Gaza made a whole amputee soccer league.

Every year at the UN general assembly there is a vote on the resolution to the Palestinian occupation, and Israel votes against it and has the US veto it, That is a peaceful diplomatic resistance, and it is blocked.

The PA controls the West Bank and for the last decade has engaged in security collaboration with Israel. Meaning they actually help israel in arresting and killing palestinains. What did Israel do? They increased settlements and freely allow settlers to burn down homes and shoot and beat Palestinians. Even a high ranking Idf official admitted the government often helps these rampages.

Youve been told this all multiple times, but you just ignore it. The reality is Palestinians did collaborate with Jews as they lived peacefully with the Jewish minorities prior to Zionism, they ceased collaboration because Zionist militias were literally doing bombing of civilians and kicking them out of their home and shooting them when they try to return unarmed. Since then Palestinians have tried peaceful protests and diplomatic resolutions and Israel just blocks it and ramps up violence. 

You refuse to accept this, why? You need to believe that somehow the mass starvation and murder of children is justified, even to the point of contorting reality and ignoring the facts of the situation. All because you have to come to the conclusion it’s actually the fault of the children killed that they were killed.

Because it's not how you say it is. The Palestinians have been violent from the beginning, and so have the Jews. Framing the Palestinians as good and the Jews as bad is the narrow-minded rhetoric that keeps problems from getting resolved. If you start looking for facts to support your position, you'll find them, and if you look for facts to support the opposing position, you'll find them too.

Let's see, if I were Jewish, I would emigrate and never return to that shithole even to see my family, but I see what that situation is like. The Zionist Jews are going remain as state, and they're going to do it unless you kill them. At first, fine, okay, you could try to kick them out, but they've been there for 100 years and they're not going to leave. Is that wrong? For Palestinian sure. For them, it's fine because according to them, those lands are theirs and all that. So there are two options: either you kill them or you adapt. If it's impossible to kill them, accept the situation and do what you can. It's not that they've enslaved you and are raping your daughters; it's that after 100 years, they've created a country. Adapt, evolve, grow as a society, take advantage of them, collaborate, forget hate. or die. Your choice.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

All because you have to come to the conclusion it’s actually the fault of the children killed that they were killed.

No, same that wasn't the fault of the girls that Hamas parade in Gaza when thousand of people cheer and party kicking the corpses. Why it's ok and bombing is bad? Because they kill more ? If you die it's the same how many others die with you, the number only reflects the capacity of killing of each side. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

Youve been told this all multiple times, but you just ignore it. The reality is Palestinians did collaborate with Jews as they lived peacefully with the Jewish minorities prior to Zionism, they ceased collaboration because Zionist militias were literally doing bombing of civilians and kicking them out of their home and shooting them when they try to return unarmed. Since

The Jews would answer that those militias were created to defend themselves.

 

🇵🇸 Summary: Origins of Violence in Palestine (Pre-1948)

Late 1800s–Early 1900s: Rising Tensions

Jewish immigration to Ottoman Palestine increased due to Zionist movements and persecution in Europe.

Arab locals grew concerned about land purchases and demographic shifts.

1917: Balfour Declaration

Britain, which controlled Palestine after WWI, endorsed the establishment of a “Jewish national home,” sparking Arab opposition.

1920s: First Clashes

1920–1921: Riots in Jerusalem and Jaffa marked the first large-scale Arab-Jewish violence.

Arabs feared political marginalization and protested growing Jewish immigration.

1929: Hebron Massacre

Widespread Arab attacks on Jewish communities, particularly in Hebron and Safed. Over 130 Jews were killed.

This deepened mistrust and led to Jewish self-defense organizations.

1936–1939: Arab Revolt

A large-scale uprising by Palestinian Arabs against British rule and Jewish immigration.

Brutally suppressed by Britain, with support from Jewish militias.

Led to radicalization and militarization on both sides.

1947: UN Partition Plan

Proposed a division of Palestine into separate Jewish and Arab states.

Jews accepted it; Arabs rejected it, seeing it as unfair.

1947–1948: Civil War Phase

After the partition vote, violence escalated rapidly between Jewish and Arab militias.

Both sides committed massacres and ethnic expulsions.

This culminated in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, following the declaration of the State of Israel.

 

[Raze]

50 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Maybe you it's you who don't understand anything , because you only see your Muslim perspective. Let me explain it to you, let's see if it sheds some light on your mind. Look, the Jews are fragmenting the West Bank and screwing the Palestinians because they're their enemies. Do you understand? If the Palestinians could, they'd kill all the Jews, and if the Jews could, they'd do the same. Do you know why? I'll explain it to you. Listen to this, because you're going to be perplexed: because they're enemies, and that's what enemies do. So, all that talk about the courts and rights is just nonsense. They're never going to let them found a state in the West Bank, because it would be a state... guess what! An enemy state!! And who wants enemy states next to their capital? The mentally retarded. Are the Jews mentally retarded? No!! Let's see if you understand this. It's simple. Friends, they love each other and live close together. Enemies, they hate each other and don't want to live close together. Is it unfair? It's also having a cancer, that's life. 

The Germans also considered Jews their enemy, if you were around then you’d be defending what they did too according to your logic.

Also, this reasoning falls apart when we look at what happened. Palestinians don’t have a state and guess what, attacks increase. The conclusion that giving them self determination causes violence fails when the opposite happened, restricting it causes violence.

Palestinain citizens in Israel also face discrimination but have some self determination such as a right to vote and travel. And they are much less dangerous than the occupied Palestinians.

Its truly such idiotic logic. We have two groups of Palestinians, Palestinian citizens who face some discrimination but overall have rights, and occupied Palestinian who are arrested, tortured, beaten, or killed on a daily basis. Occupied Palestinians carry out attack after attack damaging Jewish safety, whereas Palestinian citizens attack much less. And your conclusion? They must keep occupying Palestinians forever for safety. 

Aside from the blatant double standard of thinking millions of people don’t deserve human rights because it makes a different race feel unsafe, it isn’t even logically consistent with reality. 

35 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

No, same that wasn't the fault of the girls that Hamas parade in Gaza when thousand of people cheer and party kicking the corpses. Why it's ok and bombing is bad? Because they kill more ? If you die it's the same how many others die with you, the number only reflects the capacity of killing of each side. 

The difference is I’m not defending Hamas targeting civilians, you are defending Israel targeting civilians every day in the very structure of its occupied society.

21 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The Jews would answer that those militias were created to defend themselves

Britain, which controlled Palestine after WWI, endorsed the establishment of a “Jewish national home,” sparking Arab opposition.

It’s interesting how to you, Jews forming terrorist militias, (literally classified terrorists by the British and even important Jews like Albert Einstein) is self defense.

But in the next breath you admit Jews were literally trying to take the country. So when Arabs don’t want their homes stolen and resist that it’s unexcusable violence, but Jews bombing hotels to take their homes is just self defense?

People keep accusing me of having simplistic black and white morals. But I don’t, I just recognize that israel defenders have animalistic ethnonationalist morals and I’m trying to bring them up a step by giving them basic moral understandings such as “if it’s bad when they do it, it’s bad when you do it”. 

Also your text is full of errors, it says 130 Jews were killed in the Hebron massacre. In reality it was 67. Stop putting biased prompts into AI and thinking you now know about the conflict.

Edited June 5 by Raze

[Raze]

55 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Maybe you it's you who don't understand anything , because you only see your Muslim perspective. 

Once again, because I also already told you this, I am not Muslim.

Here is the list of countries that voted at the UN to end the occupation.

Do you think Vietnam, Chile, France, Finland, New Zealand, Japan, Jamaica are all “the Muslim perspective”? 

Edited June 5 by Raze

[Leo Gura]

Like clockwork:

https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/06/1164056

[zazen]

15 hours ago, Raze said:

I have told you three times now about the Arab peace initiative, which offers full normalization in exchange for a Palestinian state.

Meanwhile this is from the charter of Israel’s ruling party

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_river_to_the_sea#Similar_sayings_by_the_Israeli_right

 

On 6/2/2025 at 8:53 PM, zazen said:

 I just saw this 6 month old video of various Palestinians being interviewed - basically majority want the maximalist demand of a one state solution. I don’t know if this is because of all the suffering and destruction post Oct 7th or if it was their position before..

But yeah, utterly self defeating and disappointing.

The sense I get is that they think/feel that the longer they have suffered and been occupied (over 7 decades) the more they need to be compensated for it (all the land) otherwise what was all the suffering and struggle for - half of what was theirs?

The issue is a national identity can’t just be undone once it’s crystallised.  Beyond being unjust and promising eternal war - this just isn’t the early 20th century anymore where borders are malleable and colonial powers can redraw a map overnight.

Shit show of a situation - seems like a solution simply needs to be decided by more rational larger powers and imposed for a greater peace to prevail so that the region can move forward.

I think there's a lesson here in clarifying the discrepancy between societal talk vs state actions. On one level we can have maximalist aspirations and rejectionist emotional rhetoric expressed on the street, whilst having more balanced pragmatic actions taken at the state - politics level. We see this in how Gulf nations take steps towards Israel (such as the Abraham accords) even though locals are unhappy with it  - because at a state level your operating via diplomacy, pragmatism, and state interests that are bound and checked by global norms, alliances, economic pressure, and military risk.

In Israels case however, societal aspirations do translate a lot more to state actions - because the usual realpolitik and structural incentives that are supposed to be there to constrain them, are instead pushed to their limits and exceeded thanks to being enabled by the worlds superpower the US. Israel gets to act on its darkest societal instincts a lot more than other states would otherwise.

A lot of the fear around a Palestinian state can rightly be pointed to the anger and maximalist positions they may hold at a societal level, despite at a organisational one being more pragmatic (such as expressed by the PLA or today by Hamas). But that fear misses how states function differently than stateless societies. Once Palestinians have a state with defined borders, international recognition, economic incentives, and responsibilities, their behavior will shift - not because their pain disappears, but because statehood tames maximalism. That emotion will be channeled into diplomacy, law, and survival strategy - just like it has for other national or liberation movements ie IRA in Ireland.

It's the absence of a state that keeps that maximalism alive. Statelessness breeds desperation while statehood breeds accountability - to allies, trade partners and global norms. Once Palestine is on the map, its government would be forced to prioritize stability, legitimacy, and international support, not slogans. Meanwhile, Israel which is already a state - has no excuse for its behavior. Its atrocities and massacres aren’t theoretical or projection, but fact.

Just see how at a societal level many Palestinians in the following videos hold maximalist positions, whilst at a higher level of state or political organisation they are tamed into diplomatic pragmatism in order to further the interest of their own people, even against their peoples own maximalism:

 

 

 

Edited June 5 by zazen

[Breakingthewall]

10 hours ago, Raze said:

The Germans also considered Jews their enemy, if you were around then you’d be defending what they did too according to your logic.

Great demagoguery, man you are impossible. The nazis didn't want to expulse the Jews from Germany because they are fighting for a land, they want to exterminate them around the world because in their opinion they was an inferior raze who don't deserve existing. I Know that nuances are difficult, and it's much easier if you are Muslim cheer the Muslims and hate the enemies, it's what people use to do. The Nazis were psychotic, and if they offered to the Jews scape from Germany they would accept today escaping walking naked to the congo, but they didn't want expulse them, just killing them until no one Jew remains in the world. That's why when Hamas killed those people in October many Muslim around the world do demonstration shouting: gas the Jews, gas the Jews! Because the Muslims hate the Jews, but then a lot of cries when they get all the blows. That's crazy, then it's fair kill Jews and evil kill Muslims. With those ideas, the only reason is war. 

10 hours ago, Raze said:

The conclusion that giving them self determination causes violence fails when the opposite happened, restricting it causes violence.

Sure, but look so crazy are the Jews, they prefer a terrorist with a bomb than a state with planes and hypersonic missiles in west bank just above of tel Aviv. That's because they are so evil Jews very bad and settlers. 

10 hours ago, Raze said:

Its truly such idiotic logic. We have two groups of Palestinians, Palestinian citizens who face some discrimination but overall have rights, and occupied Palestinian who are arrested, tortured, beaten, or killed on a daily basis. Occupied Palestinians carry out attack after attack damaging Jewish safety, whereas Palestinian citizens attack much less. And your conclusion? They must keep occupying Palestinians forever for safety. 

That is because the Arabs of Israel are not organized into political parties like Hamas, but are normal workers who have an acceptable standard of living, and are very controlled by police.

When the Jews gave Gaza to the Palestinians, if a party called Happy Butterflies, which had as its slogans economic development and fraternity between peoples, had won, then there would have been no blockade and they would have been able to develop, but Hamas won by an absolute majority, its base being the disappearance of Israel and violent fight ,so the very crazy Jews blocked them because they don't like having people around them who want to kill them. 

10 hours ago, Raze said:

Aside from the blatant double standard of thinking millions of people don’t deserve human rights because it makes a different race feel unsafe, it isn’t even logically consistent with reality. 

They deserve an state, they can have it when the accept Israel. In 1948 an state was offered to them, but they said that they don't want to share, they wanted everything, then they have nothing. This use to happen, hate generates hate. Then a lot of complains and cries come. 

Edited June 5 by Breakingthewall

[Twentyfirst]

@Breakingthewall It's not difficult. If you ask Palestinian refugees where their grandparents were born they will all say the same thing, in Palestine and not just Gaza/West Bank but all of Palestine. If you ask Israelis about their grandparents birth location most of them will say Europe or other parts of the world

You just want other people to be able to handle situations better than you could actually handle it in reality. If you were in their shoes you would not stand a chance which is why you are asking the impossible of them, because you are deluding yourself into thinking you would get by much easier by taking the "obvious" path

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, zazen said:

It's the absence of a state that keeps that maximalism alive

 

In 2002, Saudi Arabia was going to propose a two-state solution, returning to the 1967 borders. The day before the proposal was presented, a Hamas terrorist blew himself up at a Jewish Passover and Holocaust commemoration celebration, killing 30 and wounding 200. After that, the initiative had no echo. Perhaps the crazy Jewish settlers thought that carrying out a massacre the day before meant that the good victimized Palestinians didn't want a two-state solution? Evil crazy Jews!

3 years later Hamas won the elections in gaza with absolute majority. 

Edited June 5 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

20 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

@Breakingthewall It's not difficult. If you ask Palestinian refugees where their grandparents were born they will all say the same thing, in Palestine and not just Gaza/West Bank but all of Palestine. If you ask Israelis about their grandparents birth location most of them will say Europe or other parts of the world

You just want other people to be able to handle situations better than you could actually handle it in reality. If you were in their shoes you would not stand a chance which is why you are asking the impossible of them, because you are deluding yourself into thinking you would get by much easier by taking the "obvious" path

Ok, then try to expulse them because those reasons, if for you are legitimate. They would answer that their father born in Israel and they don't want to leave, and because 2000 years ago and that. You could argue with them 200 years more, but they are absolutely convinced that they have the right to stay, so two choices, war or acceptation and development. If your choice is war then don't cry because the bombs.

Edited June 5 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

13 hours ago, zazen said:

was empty why would they need to refer to Arabs living on it resisting them.

The whole “a land without a people for a people without a land,” was a mythic justification with no basis in reality.

They were 600 thousand of Arabs in 1920 and 85 thousand Jews, the land was not empty but not very populated. The Arabs grew a lot because natality and the Jews because immigration. It's a mess, but it's a fact. The Arabs must accept the situation and stop the hate, then try to get an state and a good life for their children. If they persist in hate, they will be expulsed, all of them. Hate is not a solution. Victimism neither, they should look forward, not backwards, if not, bye. 

 

 

13 hours ago, zazen said:

There is no misunderstanding Arab nationalism… It is not possible to bring them to accept the transformation of Palestine from an Arab country into a country with a Jewish majority.”

— Ze’ev Jabotinsky, 1923

It's not possible to make them accept a reality that has already happened 100 years ago? Bad business for them.

 

 

Edited June 5 by Breakingthewall