Resource: The rise of Xi Jinping, explained

[Davino]

 

 

[integral]

So he removed the two term limit and that’s why he’s a dictator now while all his predecessors weren’t corrupt enough to do that

[Davino]

@integral That's just the tip of the iceberg.

I liked more to know about his past and overall story to power.

[Basman]

I've noticed a recent influx of pro-Chinese content recently which I find peculiar because China is undemocratic despite it's apparent successes. I think It's an expression of people's distrust of our institutions.

[Davino]

@Basman Why do you assume democracy would work in China?

Maybe democracy wouldn't work in such a unique country, or maybe it would. Why would one hold the bias towards democracy as the one size fits all governance system?

[Basman]

32 minutes ago, Davino said:

@Basman Why do you assume democracy would work in China?

Maybe democracy wouldn't work in such a unique country, or maybe it would. Why would one hold the bias towards democracy as the one size fits all governance system?

Western countries govern themselves on, and in the case of the US founded itself on, democratic values. You could perhaps say that the same way an authoritarian scoffs at democratic principles someone who values those principles would scoff at authoritarianism.

This is not to make the case of cultural plurality but my earnest impression of China currently is that it is governed by power for the sake of power. I think it is dangerous to give authoritarians credit where there is none due nor do I think it is appropriate to shield less developed countries from criticism for the sake of some kind of naturalism.

[Eskilon]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

Why do you assume democracy would work in China?

Maybe democracy wouldn't work in such a unique country, or maybe it would. Why would one hold the bias towards democracy as the one size fits all governance system?

Yeah people usually don't steelman China style of government. What China has achieved so fast and with such effiency couldn't be achieved through the partisanship of current democracy, with different people coming to power and prioritizing different projects; it's just a mess in effiency and optimization honestly.

Edited April 16 by Eskilon

[Leo Gura]

I will post a steelman of China on my blog soon.

China is doing some very impressive things that we should be openminded to. Especially given how badly America has been mismanaging itself over the last 25 years. It is no longer tenable that the American system is the best way of doing things.

Edited April 17 by Leo Gura

[Husseinisdoingfine]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I will post a steelman of China on my blog soon.

Is it going to be a typical text post or a blog video? Because I miss the good old days when you did blog videos.

But I’ve been wrestling with this thought for a while. But The People’s Republic of China is right now as we speak constructing the world’s largest hydroelectric plant.

Meanwhile in America, we couldn’t even pass build back better because it was sabotaged by only two senators. 
 

In America, we have exactly zero miles of high speed rail. California tried to build this sort of thing, before it was sabotaged by Elon Musk. And yet, they have over 20,000 miles of this stuff.

But why? Is it because of their political system? The one party state? The Communist Party? The central planning? I like to think that one of the advantages of living in a one party state is that it allows for leaders to think decades ahead without having to worry about the next election cycle electing a new party that overturns the goals of the previous party. Similar to how Trump undid of a lot of Obama’s legacy.

 

In America, billionaires stand behind Trump during the inauguration. But in China, they have special measures to make sure that the “bourgeoise” can never rise above the Politburo.

 

Edited April 17 by Husseinisdoingfine

[Yimpa]

4 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Because I miss the good old days when you did blog videos.

The introspective camera angle, I might add.

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

But why? Is it because of their political system? The one party state? The Communist Party? The central planning? I like to think that one of the advantages of living in a one party state is that it allows for leaders to think decades ahead without having to worry about the next election cycle electing a new party that overturns the goals of the previous party.

Yes, that's a major factor.

But also, China is more collectivist, which means they actually believe government is good and they are willing to self-sacrifice for the betterment of society. This is a deeply correct principle, unlike America's absurdly self-defeating libertarianism.

Libertarianism and fundamentalism has ruined America.

You cannot have a great society where everyone only acts out of private selfishness.

That Americans do not understand this in principle is shameful and stupid. And it's why China will overtake America as the world's superpower.

Edited April 17 by Leo Gura

[enchanted]

55 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I will post a steelman of China on my blog soon.

 

Please do. Also include how China fits into yhe spiral Dynamics theory? 

Edited April 17 by enchanted

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, enchanted said:

how China fits into yhe spiral Dynamics theory?

It's Blue-Orange. Not much to say about that.

Edited April 17 by Leo Gura

[kray]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's Blue-Orange. Not much to say about that.

I think china is in the Goldilock zone for development. Huge population, increasing number of individuals getting educated, and actually caring about a national identity. While not directly colonized, china did get affected by the effects of colonialism, leading it to become a poor global south country. It was the need to prove to the world and bounce back to show the west that inspired them to work hard and become a prosperous nation. In fact it’s one of the few former 3rd world countries that completely decolonized. Point is you need a healthy base of blue for a society and nation to grow.

[Davino]

I believe understanding China is so important right now for proper geopolitical and economical sense making.

[WikiRando]

It's helpful to keep in mind our own biases and experiences shape how we perceive this, though we can kinda avoid that by focusing on just the hard metrics.

Not to give away too much personal information but I've had incredibly high exposure to mainland Chinese all my life, probably higher than most people, unless you are a Mainland Chinese yourself. Which is why I am more conservative on China's potential. I am not saying it isn't going places, it just might be slower than expected, because I have seen the not so great side of China all my life. Again, this is my own experience and bias. Which I will summarize as this:

1. Incredible, unhealthy competitiveness, focus on materialism and climbing the social ladder. Not only is self worth externalized, but the worth of others is also seen through this materialistic lens. Materialism is life, and life is materialism. The problems stemming from this are clearly myriad. This is not just a Chinese problem but Chinese take it to a very high level.

2. Blind nationalism, cultural superiority complex. Look, in many senses they do live in an awesome society, but as a lower perspective, there is a fundamental lack of questioning of the pillar of their civilization and society (their government). There is also a sense of superiority, due to China's amazing history, rich culture, and all their recent achievements. It's not subtle either and can be highly egregious, undermining their soft power, like Chinese influencers flexing / taking dumps on other countries lack of development. Which ties into my next point.

3. Lack of tact, manners, refinement, civic mindedness. Basic things we take for granted elsewhere like speaking politely, respecting queues, to even worse things like scowling, throwing tantrums, spitting, urinating in public etc. I understand not all Chinese are like this and it also comes with the recency of their boom, but it remains to be seen if they can rectify this in a timely manner. Among people with extensive exposure to Chinese, there is a serious perception of mainland China's lack of refinement and civic-mindedness, that undermines their pursuit for global influence the more people start to work closer with them.

4. Corruption. There is a very ingrained culture of "guanxi" where doing favors (which often ends up as bribery in professional settings) is how you advance in the world. You scratch my back, I scratch yours. It's about relationships, not just competence. I suspect that despite all their efforts (and being so large), there is just massive corruption beneath the surface which fundamentally undermines this whole effort of advancement. Even when compared to other less developed, highly corrupt countries (which I also have extensive experience with), rarely have I seen such unabashed, ingrained eagerness to buy favors so blatantly, and so early on in the relationship, even in business settings.  

I will now mention some strengths of China and Chinese people that I see:

1. Positive collectivism (already mentioned and encapsulated incredibly well by Leo so I won't repeat)

2. Strong familial ties. Chinese people are super tight with the family, basically. Not just with the immediate family but with the entire extended family. This gives them a level of stability and support (fulfilling their hierarchy of needs) that I feel many westerners don't have, but can also be a massive impediment to developing beyond that center of gravity and treading new ground.

3. Hardworking. They value hard work, making a living. It's okay, even celebrated, to just really work your ass off and make lots of money. (good, but also bad)


This is just to add some nuance, I am not saying China is bad or that anything was said before this is untrue. Just sharing my extensive (biased) experiences with Mainland Chinese all my life. This is ignoring the geopolitical points I have made on China elsewhere on this forum.

Edited April 17 by WikiRando

[vibv]

Having China is so important to our global development right now. But there's actually no better place to live than Europe right now (though I might be biased)

[Davino]

@WikiRando Thanks for sharing.

I find the shortcomings typical from stage blue, all societies have been there or will be there.

I find the strengths interesting. I just had the insight that cultures and countries are more defined by their strengths, which are more unique, than for their deficiencies, which are more universal.

[Davino]

7 minutes ago, vibv said:

Having China is so important to our global development right now. But there's actually no better place to live than Europe right now (though I might be biased)

That could be true but there's also an important cultural/value alignment. 

For example, there's a lot of connection between Spain and Romania, not for anything historical but temperaments just seem to fit. In the same way, if you're very ambitious Portugal culture is not suited for you but if you wanna life a chill lifestyle it's an amazing place. There are some aspect and flavours which may remain constant over time and which are intrinsic to the culture despite their development level, in the same way that some core aspects of your personality evolve with you over developmental stages.

Edited April 17 by Davino

[Joel3102]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, that's a major factor.

But also, China is more collectivist, which means they actually believe government is good and they are willing to self-sacrifice for the betterment of society. This is a deeply correct principle, unlike America's absurdly self-defeating libertarianism.

Libertarianism and fundamentalism has ruined America.

You cannot have a great society where everyone only acts out of private selfishness.

That Americans do not understand this in principle is shameful and stupid. And it's why China will overtake America as the world's superpower.

Not that I disagree with a lot of America’s stupid preoccupations with rugged individualism etc, however this China romanticisation reminds me how a lot of the western intelligentsia fell for communism and had a soft spot for the Soviet Union.