Leo's Blog Discussion Mega-Thread

[zurew]

1 minute ago, gettoefl said:

Forgive means to affirm that nothing real can be threatened and thus I drop the idea that something bad happened.

Interesting, thank you for the answer.

I take it that by "affirm" there you dont just mean an intellectual notion, but you mean a deeper non-propositional notion.

Might be similar to how christian mystics use a non-propositional notion of faith.

[Xonas Pitfall]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's right.

Truth-seeking is detachment from survival.

I agree, but that is why it should be applied carefully in finite situations. I really hope I am making sense.

Because if you say that, then I could respond: if being fundamentally finite separates us from truth or God, and we can never be fully good, then why not collectively destroy the Earth and claim that this is the “highest truth”? We would simply return to infinity and endless love. And this would be correct.

By that definition, it fully follows; and if it does, then you end up with undefined conclusions and answers about what should be said or done, to whom, when, and what should be promoted.

You would need to acknowledge some form of relative moral reasoning, such as “humans should survive and feel good” or “we should avoid imposing drastic changes, since people value comfort and survival”, if you want to claim any kind of moral organization or social structure.

[gettoefl]

2 minutes ago, zurew said:

Interesting, thank you for the answer.

I take it that by "affirm" there you dont just mean an intellectual notion, but you mean a deeper non-propositional notion.

Might be similar to how christian mystics use a non-propositional notion of faith.

It is an intentional way to look at the world. Through this lens, evil is regarded as being fear, confusion, misperception and mindlessness.

[vibv]

But don't think you'd know what Truth is. Whatever you think you know is not the Truth. That's why this is so delicate and potentially misleading.

Notice I don't say you shouldn't look for the Truth. I agree with it being the highest Value BESIDES LOVE(!!). Love can't be number 2. The whole approach of a numbered list is a very human way to think about it.

@Leo Gura You said you can't have Love as the highest value because you don't know what Love is. That's true. But that doesn't mean you can just forget about Love and make Truth all-there-is. This is very delicate.

You don't know what Love is but you don't know what Truth is, either!

This doesn't mean I'm disagreeing with you, but it is (must be!) incomplete.

This is where language must collapse.

Edited 23 hours ago by vibv

[vibv]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's exactly what I'm working on.

How?

[gettoefl]

15 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

I agree, but that is why it should be applied carefully in finite situations. I really hope I am making sense.

Because if you say that, then I could respond: if being fundamentally finite separates us from truth or God, and we can never be fully good, then why not collectively destroy the Earth and claim that this is the “highest truth”? We would simply return to infinity and endless love. And this would be correct.

By that definition, it fully follows; and if it does, then you end up with undefined conclusions and answers about what should be said or done, to whom, when, and what should be promoted.

You would need to acknowledge some form of relative moral reasoning, such as “humans should survive and feel good” or “we should avoid imposing drastic changes, since people value comfort and survival”, if you want to claim any kind of moral organization or social structure.

One day the universe WILL self destruct. Just a matter of time. What happens here is nothing to do with Truth. What we are is Truth. We return to Truth either now or later. It is inescapable. Sooner seems better from a human perspective. but doesn't matter. Interestingly enough, God has provided an escape hatch as I discussed above - forgiveness.

Edited 23 hours ago by gettoefl

[gettoefl]

If what I wrote resonates with anyone and you want more details, read The Disappearance of the Universe. One of its claims is that forgiveness will save you many lifetimes of suffering and toil. The book gives a gentle introduction to A Course in Miracles.

[Xonas Pitfall]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

One day the universe WILL self destruct. Just a matter of time. What happens here is nothing to do with Truth. What we are is Truth. We return to Truth either now or later. It is inescapable. Sooner seems better from a human perspective. but doesn't matter. Interestingly enough, God has provided an escape hatch as I discussed above - forgiveness.

That’s true, but again, this is exactly the kind of thinking that can be used to justify all kinds of heinous actions. I agree that, ultimately, it may not matter in an absolute sense; however, when dealing with relative, current real-world issues, you need some shared direction, bias, or agreement. Truth alone will not provide a concrete solution.

Until that is acknowledged, people keep engaging in armchair criticism of corruption or living in the delusional fantasy that they, or anyone else, can simply let go of all pain, attachment and suffering.

[Davino]

Hey Leo, thanks for sharing quality resources on the Epstein topic, I wanted to inquiry deep on it for a long time but it was very down my priority list of contemplations. So I really appreciate it for doing the epistemic preliminary work there, it saved me much precious time.

The videos are very insightful.

[gettoefl]

31 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

That’s true, but again, this is exactly the kind of thinking that can be used to justify all kinds of heinous actions. I agree that, ultimately, it may not matter in an absolute sense; however, when dealing with relative, current real-world issues, you need some shared direction, bias, or agreement. Truth alone will not provide a concrete solution.

Until that is acknowledged, people keep engaging in armchair criticism of corruption or living in the delusional fantasy that they, or anyone else, can simply let go of all pain, attachment and suffering.

Yes you are right. That's why Truth=Love is important. If you are not aligning with Love, you are off track. Love needs to be factored in every moment and that needs serious work as Leo always points out. God's Love is a higher love than ours.

 

 

Edited 21 hours ago by gettoefl

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

Hey Leo, thanks for sharing quality resources on the Epstein topic, I wanted to inquiry deep on it for a long time but it was very down my priority list of contemplations. So I really appreciate it for doing the epistemic preliminary work there, it saved me much precious time.

The videos are very insightful.

Cool

[Rafael Thundercat]

6 hours ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

I agree, but that is why it should be applied carefully in finite situations. I really hope I am making sense.

Because if you say that, then I could respond: if being fundamentally finite separates us from truth or God, and we can never be fully good, then why not collectively destroy the Earth and claim that this is the “highest truth”? We would simply return to infinity and endless love. And this would be correct.

By that definition, it fully follows; and if it does, then you end up with undefined conclusions and answers about what should be said or done, to whom, when, and what should be promoted.

You would need to acknowledge some form of relative moral reasoning, such as “humans should survive and feel good” or “we should avoid imposing drastic changes, since people value comfort and survival”, if you want to claim any kind of moral organization or social structure.

I think what you are pointing at is what I can see coming.  Is Called Matriarchy and is a very misunderstond topic. In Summary Matriarchy is a society organized around care for life and care for the vessels of life that are women, and honetly no amount of Leo saying "Forget your birth" will erase the fact that he and me and all of us came from a Womb. Women are how infinity increase the possibility of Awakening. To even smoke 5meo you needed to being raised, feed, cared. Soon I will share some content from woman groups I follow and are deep into bringing back Matriarchy. I took time to realize is this only route for a future we as species have. Because surely White man in power already proved a disaster.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Heh heh, all humans are terrified of the womb.

They want to get back in so badly. Fixated on death as a method to escape thoughts of the womb. The original unity. Happy to talk about death forever with not a thought about coming into the awareness.

Just think about it, most people view the womb with revulsion. Birth is treated as revolting. Blood. Body fluids. Shit. Piss. Placenta. 

Something to contemplate.

[Leo Gura]

55 minutes ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Women are how infinity increase the possibility of Awakening.

Takes two to fuck, last time I checked.

Don't forget the nut-sack you came from.

Edited 15 hours ago by Leo Gura

[VioletFlame]

49 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Just think about it, most people view the womb with revulsion.

So true, girl. It's actually quite a sadistic viewpoint, isn't it? The womb is so sacred, yet it can be perceived with such degradation & profound disrespect, it's astonishing. In a sense, when you really think about it, because everything's connected, and we are one, it's rather self-loathing to view the womb with revulsion because all of us come from the womb, and inhabited the womb for maximum 10 months. We are literally a part of the womb, and we exit the womb as a bloody, gory screaming mess, lol. To be repulsed by the womb, is to be repulsed by the Self, and life itself.

50 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Blood. Body fluids. Shit. Piss. Placenta. 

Giving life sounds pretty bad ass & hardcore, if you ask me.  Lol!

[UnbornTao]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's right.

Truth-seeking is detachment from survival.

They're just different, or separate, pursuits. The truth is sought (in a hypothetical case  ) while doing survival - maybe despite it, or independent of it.

Edited 9 hours ago by UnbornTao

[Rafael Thundercat]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Takes two to fuck, last time I checked.

Don't forget the nut-sack you came from.

Of course I dont forget the nut-sack I came from and I am also aware of how dominant, violent towards women was the owner of those nut-sack. What I am saying is that we dont understand deeply Patriarchy and how it became the norm of how society is organized. And is not even about devaluing men since even boys are hurt by it. Yesterday I had a experience with Mysogyny in first hand watching another man dissmising the presence of a woman who is my friend.

 

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

we dont understand deeply Patriarchy and how it became the norm of how society is organized.

There is nothing here to understand.

Raw power wins. Women do not have the ruthlessness to dominate the world and lead armies and gangs.

Your morals do not matter in the game for survival. Whoever can enslave and rape the most people wins. That's why women don't run the world.

Edited 8 hours ago by Leo Gura

[vibv]

We're in for some rough awakenings as Humanity.

[Lila9]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is nothing here to understand.

Raw power wins. Women do not have the ruthlessness to dominate the world and lead armies and gangs.

Your morals do not matter in the game for survival. Whoever can enslave and rape the most people wins. That's why women don't run the world.

Is that something that we need to just accept quietly?

Like, you talked about how corrupted society is and how untruthful it is, how power works, and how men systematically don’t believe women. What do we do with that information?

Aren’t there better ways to organize that transcend it and resolve the problems we deal with? We may not be collectively conscious enough or thoughtful enough to give up on the current structure yet, but at some point we will get to a dead end with it. We are already touching that dead end, and we will have the choice to evolve and do better or to collapse or regress.

Harari said in Sapiens that humans evolved because of our ability to imagine and cooperate, and we lived like that for millions of years. The violent turn is something relatively new in our history, starting in agriculture, when we adapted a scarcity mindset due to the increase in population.

But now we have resolved the scarcity problem through all this brutal journey of patriarchy and building civilization, and we have abundance, but we are still stuck in the scarcity mindset.

And this is also not to idealize pre-patriarchal societies and demonize patriarchy; it is just looking at it realistically. Patriarchy may have resolved some problems and was part of our evolution, but realistically speaking, it hurts us. It is masochistic and sadistic to actively support it or turn a blind eye of it.