Leo's Blog Discussion Mega-Thread

[UnbornTao]

@TheEnigma Just take into account that your experience is all you have, and a change in state isn't an awakening. I see that you are critical and ask questions. If you ever decide to go down that road, also remember that you will be swept away by the shift in state. Keep the distinction above in mind, and if you want the advice of someone actually enlightened (which is important), you have Adi Da and Ralston explaining how this path is a trap and a slippery slope. I've tried them and deluded myself into thinking they were far more significant than they actually were. So that might happen to you too. The important thing is to move on from that fantasy if you're ultimately after the truth and not just a better experience.

[Yimpa]

7 hours ago, Stick said:

What if I keep taking psychedelic every few hours.

So wake up, take psychedelic and after the effects wear down take it again.
Keep taking it at intervals until night time and then sleep.
Repeat

That’s literally how medical marijuana is prescribed in Texas. For people who are already on the verge of death.

[Clarence]

How Elite Corruption Works

Leo, I've been wanting to ask this really basic question for a long time. It may sound a bit silly, but I've been wondering what the word "truth" naturally means to you as an English speaker?

In French, the word "vérité" usually refers to what is true. So I’ve been reading the word "truth" with that same meaning, but it never seems to fully fit the way you use it.

So I was wondering whether "truth" carries a deeper or broader meaning in English.

For example, do English speakers naturally connect it with intellectual honesty and an effort to avoid manipulation, self-deception, and bias? Or does it mostly refer to what is true, like in French?

If it actually carries that kind of meaning, it would completely transform the way I've understood it. It would also explain why the way it's used has always felt a bit off to me.

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Clarence said:

but I've been wondering what the word "truth" naturally means to you as an English speaker?

I have a much deeper notion of truth than an English speaker.

Truth is not a matter of English or langauge. Truth is to exist. Things only exist because they are Truth. Nobody understands this except those who are profoundly Awake.

But truth also refers to honesty and such. In English truth mostly refers to mental ideas that reflect the physical world.

Edited March 7 by Leo Gura

[Clarence]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I have a much deeper notion of truth than an English speaker.

Truth is not a matter of English or langauge. Truth is to exist. Things only exist because they are Truth. Nobody understands this except those who are profoundly Awake.

But truth also refers to honesty and such. In English truth mostly refers to mental ideas that reflect the physical world.

I still don't fully understand.

So when you write "truth" in the blog post, are you using it as a synonym for Truth?

Edited March 7 by Clarence

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Clarence said:

I still don't fully understand.

So when you write "truth" in the blog post, are you using it as a synonym for Truth?

It is a rich notion that encompasses a lot of stuff. It includes Truth itself, but also one's relationship towards it. To be truthful, to care about truth, to live truthfully, to use the mind in truthful ways.

The whole point of this work is to develop a profound, sacred relationship to Truth. Because you ARE Truth.

You can see that no elite, no politician, no billionaire has this relationship. This relationship is what I teach.

I gave up being a billionaire, for Truth.

Edited March 7 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, No1Here2c said:

the terms Actuality, Reality, Truth, & Existence all point toward the same thing, from slightly different angles.

Consciousness is also pointing at the same thing,

These are all identical.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, No1Here2c said:

seen to be so given you've put in the time to grasp and understand how to unify them.

Of course. That is the teaching. That is the work.

Edited March 7 by Leo Gura

[Davino]

I wanted to share an insight 

In this work we emphasize a lot on open-mindedness

In the same, open-heartedness is equally important. The heart of God makes room for all Infinity to happen, in the same way that the open Mind of God manifests all dreams.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Davino said:

open-heartedness is equally important.

Sure. Empathy, compassion, or just love.

It's all interrelated with Truth/Love.

Edited March 7 by Leo Gura

[Davino]

@Leo Gura The brutal nature of Love, that's what forces the open heart.

Watching war with insane Love

Feeling pain and suffering with absolute Love

I have much work to do with Loving the shadow of Reality, because Leo you know how horrifying the dream machine of God can get, and God loves it equally and fully. Evil is what you cannot love.

Exercise: Watch medical gore sober and then while tripping 

Edited March 7 by Davino

[Leo Gura]

@Davino Yup. That's The Work.

The only real work is Truth/Love.

Edited March 7 by Leo Gura

[Joseph Maynor]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@Davino Yup. That's The Work.

What made you conclude that this is The Work?

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

What made you conclude that this is The Work?

Understanding what God is.

[WillCameron]

5 hours ago, Davino said:

Most states of consciousness are mediated through the body, but not all. Breakthrough doses reach beyond the body's limits.

Also you should deconstruct the notion of body itself, really your body is Universal, that's your true body, Infinite Body = Infinity Mind = Infinite Consciousness 

I can understand that Truth is beyond the body, but where I'd draw the line is in one's access to that Truth given that one is limited to one's body. The body does exist and this relative experience emerges from that body. However much I may deconstruct the boundaries of my experience, I cannot deconstruct the fact that my experience is always constrained by the body. To say otherwise seems to me to be a denial of embodiment. Again, I understand the difference between Truth outside the limited body and the experience of Truth mediated by the body, and that's precisely my point. Even as I experience levels of consciousness in which I am not merely my body but are identified with the entire universe, that experience occurs through a body. I have had these experiences of oneness where I realize that my little me is merely a branch of a great tree of existence that "I" am, but that experience was only possible through a body that could experience awareness of itself.

I am open to being wrong, but I don't see a way around that.

[UnbornTao]

Oh Jesus

[Davino]

35 minutes ago, WillCameron said:

I am open to being wrong, but I don't see a way around that.

I mean you're right given the spot you're in. I want to point out that as you keep developing you'll reach states of consciousness that transcend all body mechanics and limitations.

That most of the times happen after having mastered the body workings. Yoga is helpful for that, you need to unlock the body so to speak, so that it may be transcended. Although you may take a breakthrough dose and blast off, DMT style and go direct to the money.

[WillCameron]

20 minutes ago, Davino said:

I mean you're right given the spot you're in. I want to point out that as you keep developing you'll reach states of consciousness that transcend all body mechanics and limitations.

That most of the times happen after having mastered the body workings. Yoga is helpful for that, you need to unlock the body so to speak, so that it may be transcended. Although you may take a breakthrough dose and blast off, DMT style and go direct to the money.

Edit - to clarify where I'm coming from, I'm arguing for a position I'm not sure I completely agree with. Just following a line of thought to see where it takes us.

Original:

I'm not sure I can agree that this is possible. You can experience Infinite Mind as a human, and that is profoundly deconstructive of everything we normally experience, but you cannot experience Infinite Mind as Infinite Mind. However high the levels of consciousness I can attain, a sliver of Infinite Mind that has a more complexified brain would experience more of Infinite Mind than I could ever possibly experience, just as I can experience more than a gecko, despite us both being expressions of Infinite Mind. I cannot have an experience with DMT that is not possible given the constraints created by the brain through which I am perceiving and experiencing the degrees of Infinite Mind afforded by that DMT.

Edited March 7 by WillCameron

[Davino]

@WillCameron You still believe you're a human. That's your sticky point. You're paradigm locked in the human frame. It's actually one of the hardest to break, but be open that if you continue in the path it will eventually happen, you'll breakthrough all humanity and enter into God-Mode.

Edited March 8 by Davino

[WillCameron]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

@WillCameron You still believe you're a human. That's your sticky point. You're paradigm locked in the human frame. It's actually one of the hardest to break, but be open that if you continue in the path it will eventually happen, you'll breakthrough all humanity and enter into God-Modd.

That's certainly possible. 

I want to be clear that I am not under the illusion that this conversation will bring me closer to Truth, more that I'm trying to understand the bounds within which our current conceptions of the Truth are causing us to disagree as we are.

I think the difference between us currently is that we're operating with different ontologies.

My ontology is one in which the holarchy is not coupled back into the whole. I want to be careful here to speak with precision. I understand participatory to mean something different than coupled. I am participating with reality right now in that I am participating with this laptop and with you, and so my cognition is intimately bound with the particulars of the worldspace that are affording my communication, thoughts, feelings, etc. Even as I am a mini-holarchy emerging from and in participation with other mini-holarchies of varying degrees of integrated depth, my participation is still mediated through and so limited by the holarchical depth of the human brain. As such, however high the degrees of consciousness I can attain, which might be conceived as increasing depths of holarchical integration possible in this brain, it is still occurring through a human brain. In that sense, I am not capable of "coupling" into the Infinite Mind that is the entire holarchy that includes and is beyond all the mini-holarchies and the collective holarchical field. In other words, there is a limit to the degrees of consciousness I am able to attain, and thus, the degrees of Truth I am able to experience.

Where your ontology differs is in that coupling. It appears that you believe that there is no limit to the degrees of consciousness you're capable of attaining other than time and commitment to practice. Given infinite time, you believe that you could attain infinitely high levels of consciousness that are uncapped by brain that appears to generate the consciousness you're experiencing at this moment.

So to try to clarify, I think there is an asymptotic relationship with some limit that I can infinitely edge toward yet never exceed, whereas you believe there is no limit whatsoever.

Do you think that's fair?

Edit - just in case you haven't read this I thought of a way that may better put the distinction I'm trying to find. I believe that the extent to which I am able to experience Infinite Mind is dependent on having a brain that is capable of increasing degrees of holarchical integration. For example, studies that show how the brain becomes more interconnected while on psilocybin. As such, my experience of Truth is dependent on how integrated the brain could physically be. A brain that is capable of higher degrees of integration would be capable of experiencing higher degrees of consciousness, and thus Truth. However much I may deconstruct my experience of myself as a human being, that is dependent on the brain and its capacity for increasing depths of integration.

Edited March 8 by WillCameron