Leo's Blog Discussion Mega-Thread

[aurum]

Here's another scary thought: if AI eliminates all standard meritocratic justifications for power, then what decides who holds power? Who and how is it decided that you're in the top 5% versus 95%?

Worst-case scenario, things devolve into a SD Red-esque might-makes-right situation. Power is given to those who can hold it, period.

 

[AION]

It won’t be worse than WW2

[zurew]

Unless ASI becomes a silicon sage, we will be pretty much fucked

[UnbornTao]

 

[Joshe]

28 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

why would the rich just give away their money?

If people can't afford to consume goods and services, the elites can't sell anything, and if they can't sell, they stop being elites. It will be in their own best interest, as well as everyone else's, for that not to happen. 

If it happens, a new system will emerge. There will be opportunity there, as there always has been. 

[zurew]

Elites wont need customers in order to stay in power or to gain more power. 

They can just use the best AI model for whatever they want and need. They can stay  and be happy in their own closed loop.

I don't see at all how they would lose their elite status once there are no more customers.

The resource difference will be there , it wont go anywhere and it will just grow given that they will employ AI agents that  will get increasingly more intelligent and efficient.

Edited Monday at 06:09 PM by zurew

[Daniel Balan]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

This is a fantasy.

Without employment humans will devolve into drug addicted animals, not enlightened sages.

Do not assume that billionaires will give you any of their money.

If you are not employed you have no way of making money. Do not assume that you are unemployed but you magically have money.

Then why do you say here that UBI will allow people to reach their highest self? How come you have changed your opinion on this matter?

 

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

This is a fantasy.

Without employment humans will devolve into drug addicted animals, not enlightened sages.

Do not assume that billionaires will give you any of their money.

If you are not employed you have no way of making money. Do not assume that you are unemployed but you magically have money.

We can use AI to give everyone access to training from enlightened masters 

Edited Monday at 06:22 PM by Raze

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

Then why do you say here that UBI will allow people to reach their highest self? How come you have changed your opinion on this matter?

 

I've gotten a lot more realistic from a deep study of human corruption and depravity.

I spent the last few years deconstructing many progressive fantasies for myself. Which is why you see me being much more critical of the left and their ideas than I used to be.

Edited Monday at 06:28 PM by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

Nevermind 95% unemployment. Even just 30% unemployment would catastrophic for society.

95% unempolyment would be near exitinction level for the human species.

Edited Monday at 06:57 PM by Leo Gura

[Wilhelm44]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Nevermind 95% unemployment. Even just 30% unemployment would a catastrophic for society.

95% unempolyment would be near exitinction level for the human species.

And you said that would lead to WW3. So if the tech oligarchy dont do the UBI thing, wouldn't they be committing suicide ?

Edited Monday at 06:30 PM by Wilhelm44

[Jannes]

You could tax companies for using AI so that the wealth generated by AI can get transferred into UBI.

I would agree that it probably wont lead to a 1 to 1 transfer because of corruption, but maybe enough for basic goods.

[Joshe]

26 minutes ago, zurew said:

Elites wont need customers in order to stay in power or to gain more power. 

They can just use the best AI model for whatever they want and need. They can stay  and be happy in their own closed loop.

I don't see at all how they would lose their elite status once there are no more customers.

The resource difference will be there , it wont go anywhere and it will just grow given that they will employ AI agents that  will get increasingly more intelligent and efficient.

Elites are humans too. They do not want to hole up in bunkers with robots and a few humans on hand. They wouldn't be happy living like that. Not only that, it's a bad survival strategy. They'd eventually be snuffed out and killed.

Also, their will to power is built around power over humans, not power over robots. 

The only solution will be another economic model. That's their best play. 

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

And you said that would lead to WW3. So if the tech oligarchy dont do the UBI thing, wouldn't they be committing suicide ?

Well, the whole doomer argument basically assumes that mankind is greedy enough to commit suicide.

How true is that? Hard to say.

I don't know how this whole AI thing will play out. Could be great, could be hell.

[zurew]

17 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Also, their will to power is built around power over humans, not power over robots. 

Power will be defined by having the most intelligent robots.

non elites will beg for goods and services , and most elites will self sustain.

You can maintain your power without having any customers.

17 minutes ago, Joshe said:

it's a bad survival strategy. They'd eventually be snuffed out and killed.

As an elite you can have an army of the most intelligent agents protecting you 24/7 and them montioring everything around you. I dont see how any person would be a big threat to them and even if that was true there are ways around it.

 

Edited Monday at 07:02 PM by zurew

[zurew]

The government will need to take care of it, but most elites wont give a fuck about any of the chaos.

[integral]

@Leo Gura

As unemployment Rises, total taxable income for the government will fall, So eventually the government will basically go bankrupt as it has no income, and it will be forced to depends more and more on taxing companies. But of course this dependency only further gives companies more power over the government.

I know it's naive but I don't think Elon, OpenAI and Google is going to allow everyone to starve to death.

I think these people genuinely want to make a world of abundance. They just wont be able to build the uncorruptible systems we need.

It is predictable that when Elon controls trillions of robots it is not that difficult of a task to solve world hunger. The effort and cost to do so is so low that it's a joke at that point.

Edited Monday at 09:16 PM by integral

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, integral said:

I know it's naive but I don't think Elon, OpenAI and Google is going to allow everyone to starve to death.

They will live out their sci-fi fantasies while you slowly get poorer and poorer and completely useless to them.

Edited Monday at 09:20 PM by Leo Gura

[integral]

@Leo Gura 

What about this angle: it's in company's best interest to have Universal basic income for everyone, because that's the only way these companies will stay alive.

95% unemployment without UBI also means  -> 95% bankruptcy for every company. 

So Because company's are dependent on consumers -> Humanity might have a chance LMFAO

Even the greedy Wallmart CEO will vote for UBI, the alternative is bankruptcy.

The more robots replace jobs the less money Wallmart makes...

Edited Monday at 09:47 PM by integral

[Aether Phoenix]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is a fantasy.

Without employment humans will devolve into drug addicted animals, not enlightened sages.

Do not assume that billionaires will give you any of their money.

If you are not employed you have no way of making money. Do not assume that you are unemployed but you magically have money.

 

@Leo Gura,

I don’t pretend to have every detail of a future where machines do almost all paid work, but three plain signals stop me from believing society will stay broken:

Cash alone or unemployment doesn’t drag people down.

Tests in Stockton (US), rural Kenya, and Finland handed out money with no strings. They found better health, lower stress, and no jump in drug use; Stockton even saw an uptick in full-time work and skills training. 

Sharing the gains can outlast partisan fights.

• Alaska’s oil dividend has mailed every resident a yearly cheque for 40 years, backed by both parties. 

• Milton Friedman—no progressive hero—once sold a “negative income tax” to trim welfare bloat. 

Billionaires don’t have to volunteer; a distressed majority can legislate.

Maslow’s ladder still applies.

Once food and safety are covered, most people aim for community, mastery, and meaning. I can’t yet see our exact post-AGI missions, but I don’t see the ladder breaking. Maybe even “galactic challenges" will give us fresh purpose. Let’s hope.

 

Short-term turmoil? Almost certain. But history shows a rough adjustment → new rules → new balance, not endless collapse. I’m betting we rebuild rather than rot. 

Edited Monday at 10:41 PM by Aether Phoenix