ivankiss

There cannot be more or less consciousness

177 posts in this topic

That's just another illusion. Another fairytale. Another story.

Which is funny, because spiritual folks love seeing themselves as more conscious than others, talking about how they're continuously becoming more and more conscious, reaching way beyond enlightenment level 9000, etc.

Which is clearly bs. Everyone knows that enlightenment beyond level 9000 is just not possible.

Point is, it's yet another mindfuck, that's all it is. There is no truth in it. Even though, admittedly, at some point it really does seem like it's true. Like you became more conscious lol.

I can say with 100% confidence that most spiritual folks are confusing their senses, their thoughts and their feelings for consciousness. I am absolutely sure that most of you think that seeing or hearing is what consciousness is. And that's where you all get tricked and trapped.

If seeing or hearing is consciousness... then what is conscious of seeing or hearing?

Consciousness comes prior to it all. Prior to all of your 5 human senses, that you think are God lol. Prior to thought, prior to feeling.

Consciousness holds space for all thoughts, feelings and senses - if you will.

There absolutely cannot be more or less consciousness, or anything else for that matter. Everything already is, as it is.

There can be less emotional baggage and mental clutter, and that can make it seem as if senses are sharper and as if there is more consciousness... but that's just a trick, again. Just 'content' appearing within consciousness, and not even.

Consciousness remains the same, at all times.

Infinite, omnipresent, omnipotent.

So omnipotent, in fact, that it can trick itself into believing that there is any more or less of it.

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

That’s crazy I literally thought about this exact thing last night . It’s like you wrote from my mind too

Edited by Sugarcoat

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@ivankiss Good post overall, I think it clears some misconceptions

 

Consciousness is all there is but there are infinite states of consciousness.

You want to isolate consciousness as infinitely trascendentent but that is an abstraction because consciousness cannot exist apart from the incarnated state is manifesting. So you got half of the equation right. Consciousness is transcendental but Consciousness is also immanent. This is the metaphysical understanding.

Practically speaking, consciousness keeps being all there is, but different states of consciousness allow different cuts into infinity. Some states of consciousness are fragmented and asymmetrical, while other states of consciousness are interconnected, holistic and symmetrical, at perfect universal equilibrium. Consciousness is like a hall of mirrors, there are configurations where it reflects within itself and ever deeper awakens to what is. In this line, God-Realization comes.

 


👁CONSCIOUSNESS👁

☀️INFINITY_GOD🌞

🌎LOVE❤️                         💎TRUTH⚔️

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Yes, there are states of Consciousness, in relation to Wakefulness, if You are Dead Asleep, you experience and perceive nothing in your Consciousness, speaking about individual Consciousness, when you awake from Sleep then you become more conscious or Aware, then we have Realization.

Then there is the Consciousness that You are talking about the is before all perception, awareness, sense organ input and thoughts/feelings/memory/experiences etc,, this is akin to Brahamn or what was there before Creation (Shiva), in the West some call this Consciousness, this is place of Oneness, Completeness, no Duality and no expression or individualization..this place holds all potential and possibility..

We are here to work this all out, in a place where potential can be expressed, so it has duality, materiality, expression, cognition, trillions of life forms, Karma at play and such, for us as Human Beings with Individual Body/Mind complexes, we can actually work out this potential in the form of Awareness and Free Will, we can be Aware enough to know we are connected and one with everything, while living in individual bodies and minds, if one strives to go beyond survival instinct and ego identifications...


Karma Means "Life is my Making", I am 100% responsible for my Inner Experience. -Sadhguru..."I don''t want Your Dreams to come True, I want something to come true for You beyond anything You could dream of!!" - Sadhguru

 

 

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@Sugarcoat Very cool!

@Davino It can seem like I'm trying to isolate or separate consciousness from appearance, yes, and that's more for the sake of the post. To really point out or towards the source.

It is all one thing, ultimately. All consciousness. But at some point it's important to be able to make certain distinctions. Like telling a feeling apart from a thought, perception apart from pure awareness.

@Ishanga I hear you, and thanks. You obviously chose a different path and use a slightly different language to describe things, but I figure we agree on things that matter.

'State of consciousness' is something I tend to dismiss, because, again, that is the content, the appearance or the activity within consciousness. Which is, ultimately, if bought into, still just delusion, bluntly put.

State of consciousness, in 'my book' = a cocktail of thoughts, feelings and senses

It might be a fresh, new cocktail. One that we're not used to from before. Hence we think it's a completely new thing. But it's really just a different flavour.

 

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22 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

@Sugarcoat Very cool!

@Davino It can seem like I'm trying to isolate or separate consciousness from appearance, yes, and that's more for the sake of the post. To really point out or towards the source.

It is all one thing, ultimately. All consciousness. But at some point it's important to be able to make certain distinctions. Like telling a feeling apart from a thought, perception apart from pure awareness.

@Ishanga I hear you, and thanks. You obviously chose a different path and use a slightly different language to describe things, but I figure we agree on things that matter.

'State of consciousness' is something I tend to dismiss, because, again, that is the content, the appearance or the activity within consciousness. Which is, ultimately, if bought into, still just delusion, bluntly put.

State of consciousness, in 'my book' = a cocktail of thoughts, feelings and senses

It might be a fresh, new cocktail. One that we're not used to from before. Hence we think it's a completely new thing. But it's really just a different flavour.

 

I think a big challenge in Spirituality (which is the Science of Experiencing that dimension within You that is not physical in nature) is there are two core groups, those that are Absolutist, "There is only Consciousness, Brahman, Grand Intelligence, God, and that's it, everything else is imaginary, maya, illusion, non existent", now if you research Indian Eastern Spirituality, some say that everything that is impermanent is non existent, so our bodies, minds, buildings, material things, everything that will someday not be around is non existent, but is that really true? Well it may be in the long run, but right now my Body feels pretty real and not imaginary or non existent, lol, so the ppl in this camp are denying Creation in a way...

Then the next group are those that Start from where they are at, they don't talk or think about God, Brahman, Maya, Cosnciousness and all this stuff, they just want to stop suffering and live a better life, so that starts with being Peaceful of Your own nature, naturally.  Methods like Yoga are in this group, there is a method, technique, use it and this will help you stop the Stress Response and allow You to be more Peaceful in Experience, and well it works with the Energy systems and such, then once a stable base is there things will start to happen, life transforms...

Both can work, as everyone  has different Karmic makeups, some are new souls others old souls per say, so that is why we have so many ways to look at it and describe it and get to the ultimate Realization of Oneness and Completeness, Sat Chit Ananda-->Truth Consciousness Bliss...


Karma Means "Life is my Making", I am 100% responsible for my Inner Experience. -Sadhguru..."I don''t want Your Dreams to come True, I want something to come true for You beyond anything You could dream of!!" - Sadhguru

 

 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, ivankiss said:

There absolutely cannot be more or less consciousness, or anything else for that matter. Everything already is, as it is.

There can be less emotional baggage and mental clutter, and that can make it seem as if senses are sharper and as if there is more consciousness... but that's just a trick, again. Just 'content' appearing within consciousness, and not even.

Consciousness remains the same, at all times.

I think more or less consciousness is typically used to track how much you are aware of the content not the structure (structure would be the recognition that everything is consciousness and content would be all the possible worlds and things and ways and patterns that can be imagined or in other words built from consciousness). 

How much relative truths and how many combination of those relative truth are you conscious of and how many sub categorizes and perspectives are you conscious of? - just staying within the laws of logic (law of identity, law of non-contradiction, law of the excluded middle) there are an infinite number of possible worlds, then fuck knows what breaking those actually entails in terms of number of relative truths wise.

Like saying - when you go to sleep at night, its one thing that you can recognize that you are dreaming, but its another thing to:

  • Freely do things in your dream ;
  • To be aware all the content of that dream;
  • To be aware of all the laws and patterns of that dream;
  • To be aware of all the perspectives in that dream;
  • To be able to change that dream all together to a completely different dream
  • And then to be aware of all the possible dreams that can be imagined and all the content that can be imagined in each of those dreams and all the combinations how you can arrange the elements in those dreams and being aware all the possible ways how you can categorize and slice up and interpret those dreams
Edited by zurew

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2 hours ago, Davino said:

@ivankiss Good post overall, I think it clears some misconceptions

 

Consciousness is all there is but there are infinite states of consciousness.

You want to isolate consciousness as infinitely trascendentent but that is an abstraction because consciousness cannot exist apart from the incarnated state is manifesting. So you got half of the equation right. Consciousness is transcendental but Consciousness is also immanent. This is the metaphysical understanding.

Practically speaking, consciousness keeps being all there is, but different states of consciousness allow different cuts into infinity. Some states of consciousness are fragmented and asymmetrical, while other states of consciousness are interconnected, holistic and symmetrical, at perfect universal equilibrium. Consciousness is like a hall of mirrors, there are configurations where it reflects within itself and ever deeper awakens to what is. In this line, God-Realization comes.

 

For all things Consciousness the answer is always....nothing is impossible for Consciousness because it has no ground.


You are a selfless LACK OF APPEARANCE, that CONSTRUCTS AN APPEARANCE. But that appearance can disappear and reappear and we call that change, we call it time, we call it space, we call it distance, we call distinctness, we call it other. But notice...this appearance, is a SELF. A SELF IS A CONSTRUCTION!!! 

So if you want to know the TRUTH OF THE CONSTRUCTION. Just deconstruct the construction!!!! No point in playing these mind games!!! No point in creating needless complexity!!! The truth of what you are is a BLANK!!!! A selfless awareness....then that means there is NO OTHER, and everything you have ever perceived was JUST AN APPEARANCE, A MIRAGE, AN ILLUSION, IMAGINARY. 

Everything that appears....appears out of a lack of appearance/void/no-thing, non-sense (can't be sensed because there is nothing to sense). That is what you are, and what arises...is made of that. So nonexistence, arises/creates existence. And thus everything is solved.

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This is obviously false.

You have more consciousness right now than you do when you're napping.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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Posted (edited)

Depends on how your using language, context and what you are pointing to

Of course, the all encompassing consciousness is always there.

But, you can be more conscious. This is obvious with animals and humans and even humans in populations.

Edited by Thought Art

 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

That’s crazy I literally thought about this exact thing last night . It’s like you wrote from my mind too

You know how many times this has happened to me. Once I was thinking why gurus all have white long beards, then Someone_here started a post about that. Other times, my mind spontaneously, out of nowhere and for no reason, think of a forum user who I haven't seen on for quite some time, and within a few days, i'll see them appear. The moderator, Michael in the health section was one of them. He was gone for a while; and it wasn't till I noticed months later that he appeared again.

There are times when I've had a conversation with someone on a particular topic and woke up to a YT suggested video on the same topic and answering some questions or concerns I may have had on that same topic. It's everywhere. We just have to have the eyes to see them. I don't even get shocked anymore, that's why I don't even say anything, I just smile within myself and say, hmmmm.

Shows you how it's all One, not even, but All there Is. We're not even connected because it's all there is, all the same. 

Edited by Princess Arabia

Unconditional love is all there is. 

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26 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

You know how many times this has happened to me. Once I was thinking why gurus all have white long beards, then Someone_here started a post about that. Other times, my mind spontaneously, out of nowhere and for no reason, think of a forum user who I haven't seen on for quite some time, and within a few days, i'll see them appear. The moderator, Michael in the health section was one of them. He was gone for a while; and it wasn't till I noticed months later that he appeared again.

There are times when I've had a conversation with someone on a particular topic and woke up to a YT suggested video on the same topic and answering some questions or concerns I may have had on that same topic. It's everywhere. We just have to have the eyes to see them. I don't even get shocked anymore, that's why I don't even say anything, I just smile within myself and say, hmmmm.

Shows you how it's all One, not even, but All there Is. We're not even connected because it's all there is, all the same. 

This is just a sign of some siddhis coming up and playing with You, I get this sometimes too, not with this forum but other things going on, its just a potential awakening within Us, we just can't get too attached to it,,,I am not sure if it is about connectedness, or that we are all the same because it has to do with personal intentions and egoic mind stuffs, that is individual imo...or just a psychic realm being opened up, the Mind itself has many powers that look extraordinary, but are natural when we shut off the thinking process and calm ourselves, and this is just mind level stuff, there is much more is one is really open!!

 

The YT stuff is just us being spied on, what we say here is being spied on and used for some data collection and what our interests are,,,My Wife and I were talking about something the other day and then she saw some ads related to it on her social media feeds, how is that possible one may say, our phones are microphones and everything is being recorded somewhere and used to make someone else rich lol!!


Karma Means "Life is my Making", I am 100% responsible for my Inner Experience. -Sadhguru..."I don''t want Your Dreams to come True, I want something to come true for You beyond anything You could dream of!!" - Sadhguru

 

 

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Consciousness has different levels of depth, until reaching total depth, that is absence of limitations. Consciousness is always the same, but the limits that veil it change, blur and can disappear.

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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

The YT stuff is just us being spied on, what we say here is being spied on and used for some data collection and what our interests are

No, I get this part. Like fb ads and that kind of stuff. Ilm familiar with that. What I'm talking about is say I follow a particular Spiritual person on YT and I watch them everyday or a lot of their videos. A video from them will pop up addressing an issue I'm dealing with the day before, always the day before. The next day, my questions will be answered or it will be a video talking about the same issue, exactly. This is different from the spying thing because I'll be talking about it without internet or phone around and in person. 

Edited by Princess Arabia

Unconditional love is all there is. 

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6 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

No, I get this part. Like fb ads and that kind of stuff. Ilm familiar with that. What I'm talking about is say I follow a particular Spiritual person on YT and I watch them everyday or a lot of their videos. A video from them will pop up addressing an issue I'm dealing with the day before, always the day before. The next day, my questions will be answered or it will be a video talking about the same issue, exactly. This is different from the spying thing because I'll be talking about it without internet or phone around and in person. 

Oh Okay, that's cool, its like some doors are opening up which is life at Ease in some ways, which is very cool as well, its the way it should be:)


Karma Means "Life is my Making", I am 100% responsible for my Inner Experience. -Sadhguru..."I don''t want Your Dreams to come True, I want something to come true for You beyond anything You could dream of!!" - Sadhguru

 

 

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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

This is obviously false.

You have more consciousness right now than you do when you're napping.

You're talking about states.

Getting drunk is a state. Getting high on psychedelics is a state. 

States change. Activity and appearances change. That there can be more or less of.

Not consciousness.

Consciousness is always the same amount lol. Infinite amount.

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Posted (edited)

22 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

Consciousness is always the same amount lol.

No.

If that were true there would be no point in doing spiritual practice. There would also be no point in taking psychedelics.

Edited by Leo Gura

You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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Posted (edited)

What is the art of groups triangulating common meaning through text? 
 

I wonder if we aren’t all speaking subtlety different languages. This is likely the case as we all have subtle differences in genes, education, development experiences, etc. 
 

The deeper the level of understanding you gain in any are of contemplation the better you are able to communicate in ways that’s acknowledge this often noisy process of communicating with different minds. 
 

How can we respond with more curiosity as to what each other is trying to say as to draw more common clarity of what we are referring to?

Have you taken time to define for yourself what these words mean or are they implicit concepts that you haven’t thoroughly explored in yourself?

Edited by Thought Art

 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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I think you mean the substance of your consciousness and mine are the same and that’s true, but that doesn’t make an ordinary person as conscious as a guru, or make a child as conscious as an adult.

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In order to perceive consciousness as less or more you have to perceive consciousness as an object in your mind which can be pitted against things other than itself. It's all a relative conception. An intellectual illusion which points to nothing outside of itself. Just mind dividing and separating as it tends to do. Nothing more to see here.

"More consciousness" means there is something beyond consciousness, which is impossible. It's the classic folly of believing something can exist beyond the absolute. This is why you can't become conscious through intellect or logic or mind. Because the mind can only divide, and division is limitation.


"God is not a conclusion, it is a sudden revelation. When you see a rose it is not that you go through a logical solipsism, "This is a rose, and roses are beautiful, so this must be beautiful." The moment you see it, the head stops spinning thoughts. On the contrary, your heart starts beating faster. It is something totally different from the idea of truth." -Osho

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