Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Nivsch]

A photo I took about a month ago near my town. Today its day 642.

Edited July 9 by Nivsch

[hundreth]

10 hours ago, Raze said:

And how should we interpret people who were defending the war for months, a war which has killed 17,000 children and destroyed the lives of tens of thousands more now injured or suffering from PTSD, which failed militarily as Israeli outlets are now admitting the war goals of rescuing the hostages and removing Hamas through military force have both failed, as countless protestors had predicted.

The generous interpretation is protestors were right and you all were wrong, the less generous one is you were part of a campaign to manufacture consent for ethnic cleansing. 

There was always going to be a response from Israel. The question is what and how. I think you'd be right to go after the pro war faction which has no sympathy for Palestinian lives and wants to see Hamas rooted out at any cost. On the other hand, there are some of us who would have liked to see Israel take different measures and use special forces to go after leadership, negotiate to bring back hostages as number one priority, carefully target weapons depots, etc. 

Likewise, there can be Pro Palestinian protesters who don't use violent rhetoric, who spread messages of peace and who call out bigotry and genocidal language no matter where it comes from. 

But that would require nuance. Which is something you don't really seem to care for.

[Wilhelm44]

49 minutes ago, hundreth said:

There was always going to be a response from Israel. The question is what and how. I think you'd be right to go after the pro war faction which has no sympathy for Palestinian lives and wants to see Hamas rooted out at any cost. On the other hand, there are some of us who would have liked to see Israel take different measures and use special forces to go after leadership, negotiate to bring back hostages as number one priority, carefully target weapons depots, etc. 

Likewise, there can be Pro Palestinian protesters who don't use violent rhetoric, who spread messages of peace and who call out bigotry and genocidal language no matter where it comes from. 

But that would require nuance. Which is something you don't really seem to care for.

Oct 7th was barbaric, Israel's response was barbaric, no nuance needed.

[Porphyry Fedotov]

On 7/1/2025 at 5:51 PM, Nivsch said:

Whoever chants "death to" (no matter the side) is a red flag. In this case you can see also the body language and tonality that don't leave you any room of doubt.

It depends on the context and nuance. Death to SS in 1940s sounded about right for the Allies and Jews, Slavs, Gypsies etc. in particular. Death to the IDF in 2025 has the same effect, because, objectively speaking, the IDF is the blind force perpetrating one of the bloodiest genocides of the 21st century right now. However, I understand that for a person living in Israel, it might sound shocking and barbaric. As 'Death to SS' would've sounded to the normal German citizen in the times of the Third Reich.

Edited July 9 by Porphyry Fedotov

[hundreth]

1 hour ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Oct 7th was barbaric, Israel's response was barbaric, no nuance needed.

In today's world this actually counts as nuance.

[hundreth]

1 hour ago, Porphyry Fedotov said:

It depends on the context and nuance. Death to SS in 1940s sounded about right for the Allies and Jews, Slavs, Gypsies etc. in particular. Death to the IDF in 2025 has the same effect, because, objectively speaking, the IDF is the blind force perpetrating one of the bloodiest genocides of the 21st century right now. However, I understand that for a person living in Israel, it might sound shocking and barbaric. As 'Death to SS' would've sounded to the normal German citizen in the times of the Third Reich.

Israel is not Nazi Germany, not even close. This is what we're talking about. The history, context and circumstances of what is happening are all completely different. There is no moral equivalence. It's a disingenuous comparison. 

[zazen]

 

 

Make no mistake - the US empire itself is an utter disgrace, regardless of which figurehead president and admin is in place. If anyone is under any illusion that they can shit more easily on the current admin simply because it’s not their favourite political party - beware that the same actions occurred under your beloved Democrat liberals, including all the wars started or expanded under the Clinton’s or Obamas.

The fact that the imperial boomerang has finally made its way home domestically and shoved up the nations ass by the hands of Orange Hitler - doesn’t change the fact that the US has been an imperial empire for decades regardless of which political party was in the hot seat. I welcome you to suspend yourselves from this childish schoolyard political circle jerking and not only shit on the empire, but diarrhoea on it in full glory.

May America the nation rid itself of the Empire and shine bright and good. This is the distinction needed to resolve any cognitive dissonance about how to “feel” about America. Separate the nation from the Empire. Most people are good, few are bad, and even fewer are evil. That is our only hope.

Free Palestine of occupation, free America of ultra Zionism and Empire. Free the people of their illusions of “Democracy” = developed and good. 

Don’t also fall into the MAGA/Nick Fuentes viewpoint that all the Middle East wars are at the hands of Israel - the US itself has interest and incentive for its own actions in the Middle East. Even with the latest Iran tussle - the US empire wants to maintain primacy and the petro dollar which Iran is trading outside of along Russia and China. Iran existing as it does outside the system is a threat to the US Empire, not the nation of America. Empires don’t tolerate blatant examples of defiance.

Their interests are mostly aligned. People may ask, if interests are aligned why the need for AIPAC? The existence of AIPAC is to influence  how that alignment is conducted - under whose tactics and timeline. Their like a couple who agree on wanting kids (hegemony and regional dominance) but the woman (Israel) pressuring the man (US) to have kids now and on her timeline (neutralise Iran now!!).

Hence I say: free America from the cold calculations of Empire, which thinks in pragmatic but heartless empire logic - but also free it from Ultra-Zionism which thinks in fanatic logic. Partisan politics over socio-cultural issues blinds us to the continuity of politics by the uni-party dealing with Empire - hence the recent frustration even amongst Trump supporters at actions on Iran and just now at covering up Epstein.

Don’t mistake your vote on socio-cultural issues as a say in national security or foreign policy - where’s your democracy there? Those decisions are made above your pay grade, even though you and others around the world pay for them in blood.

Edited July 9 by zazen

[Twentyfirst]

7 hours ago, hundreth said:

Israel is not Nazi Germany, not even close. This is what we're talking about. The history, context and circumstances of what is happening are all completely different. There is no moral equivalence. It's a disingenuous comparison. 

Israel is worse than the Nazis. The Nazis only lasted a short time. Israel has been causing damage for 80 years

[Twentyfirst]

As the West dies, Israel’s future lies with rising Asia

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/410921

*Translation: As Blackrock conquers the West and discards the Zionist colony, the Jewish people are for sale to be absorbed by a new higher power

Edited July 10 by Twentyfirst

[Nivsch]

10 hours ago, Porphyry Fedotov said:

It depends on the context and nuance. Death to SS in 1940s sounded about right for the Allies and Jews, Slavs, Gypsies etc. in particular. Death to the IDF in 2025 has the same effect, because, objectively speaking, the IDF is the blind force perpetrating one of the bloodiest genocides of the 21st century right now. However, I understand that for a person living in Israel, it might sound shocking and barbaric. As 'Death to SS' would've sounded to the normal German citizen in the times of the Third Reich.

Your logic is utterly twisted and wrong.

Without IDF, 10M Israelis and Jews would be killed, whereas without Nazis, 17-20M people would be alive.

Edited July 10 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

55 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Without IDF, 10M Israelis and Jews would be killed

Not so much killed as kicked out of Palestine.

You make it sounds like Arabs just wanna kill Jews. Nope. They just want their farmland back.

This is not a conflict against Jews, it is conflict over land that Jews decided to grab for themselves.

Edited July 10 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not so much killed as kicked out of Palestine.

You make it sounds like Arabs just wanna kill Jews. Nope. They just want their farmland back.

This is not a conflict against Jews, it is conflict over land that Jews decided to grab for themselves.

I would think that it's a mix of both.

They obviously want their land back, but also many of them (not all of them) have always hated the Jews because of how ethnocentric they are.

Edited July 10 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

have always hated the Jews because of how ethnocentric they are.

I don't think history bears this out. Jews lived in the Middle East historically without much animosity.

[Nivsch]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You make it sounds like Arabs just wanna kill Jews. Nope.

Not Arabs (and not Jews per se) but hamas, Hezbollah and each terror group which already represents the chunk of Palestinians or other ethnic groups that went through radicalization and want to wipe out violently all of Israeli citizens at this point. Agree with the refinement you pointed out.

Edited July 10 by Nivsch

[Wilhelm44]

38 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Not Arabs (and not Jews per se) but hamas, Hezbollah and each terror group who already represents the chunk of Palestinians or other ethnic groups who went through radicalization and want to wipe out violently all of Israeli citizens at this point. Agree with the refinement you pointed out.

And a large chunk of Israeli's seem to be okay with wiping out all Palestinians. It's a hard mirror to look at.

[Porphyry Fedotov]

13 hours ago, hundreth said:

Israel is not Nazi Germany, not even close. This is what we're talking about. The history, context and circumstances of what is happening are all completely different. There is no moral equivalence. It's a disingenuous comparison. 

Bro. I'm not saying that Israel is the literal Third Reich. However, they share a lot in common. Israel has been more then a decade under the rule of ultranationalist leadership and it has shaped its internal and domestic affairs. And consequently, it's committing a genocide for all the world to witness.
Speaking in terms of spiral dynamics, they're both deeply blue. Take polls, for example, they show that most Israelis are in support of the displacement of Gazans
https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/poll-show-most-jewish-israelis-support-expelling-gazans

[Porphyry Fedotov]

4 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Your logic is utterly twisted and wrong.

Without IDF, 10M Israelis and Jews would be killed, whereas without Nazis, 17-20M people would be alive.

We need to address the root of this evil. Without Zionist ideology, there wouldn't be a conflict to speak of. Citizens of Poland, Germany, USSR etc who came to colonise Palestine and their descendants would've peacefully lived in their shtetls without colonising a distant foreign land and doing the Nakba

[Wilhelm44]

27 minutes ago, Porphyry Fedotov said:

We need to address the root of this evil. Without Zionist ideology, there wouldn't be a conflict to speak of. Citizens of Poland, Germany, USSR etc who came to colonise Palestine and their descendants would've peacefully lived in their shtetls without colonising a distant foreign land and doing the Nakba

Blaming just one side is never really the truth though. Different religious cultures being overly attached to the same piece of land was never going to be a recipe for peace. You can always keep going further back in the past to a time when the Jews were actually living there etc etc.

Edited July 10 by Wilhelm44

[hundreth]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Not so much killed as kicked out of Palestine.

You make it sounds like Arabs just wanna kill Jews. Nope. They just want their farmland back.

This is not a conflict against Jews, it is conflict over land that Jews decided to grab for themselves.

They would be killed because those Jews aren't leaving Lol. 
The Jews grabbed land connected to their ancestral home and religion in response to a world war that murdered millions of them. They aren't going to let it go, so what happened before Israel is completely irrelevant.

[zazen]

2 hours ago, hundreth said:

They would be killed because those Jews aren't leaving Lol. 
The Jews grabbed land connected to their ancestral home and religion in response to a world war that murdered millions of them. They aren't going to let it go, so what happened before Israel is completely irrelevant.

In your own words ''the Jews grabbed land connected to their ancestral home'' but then ''what happened before Israel is completely irrelevant'' - its totally relevant when Zionists want to make their case like you just did though. And according to the same logic, Palestinians ''aren't going to let it go'' either, which is why both need to learn to co-exist somehow cos both ain't fuckin leavin lol

 

Edited July 10 by zazen