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You could say It has, it's total because it is limitless, "nothingness" is not a pointer, it's a misleading idea. Maybe it's pointed by some people who don't know what are talking about but they need to appear whise? Just a possibility . Do you know something? There are people who are so concerned about their self image that they invent that they are enlightened and they believe that history, and it's absolutely impossible that they see the that they are creating an history. It's fascinating to see that phenomenon, not always easy to detect. It's very important to understand that this is always a possibility, because if not it's easy to get lost in the games of some people

What is pointed to (call it whatever you want) has no attributes. There will always be more questions, because the ignorance and confusion are born of the mind (i.e., at the 'level' of the mind, which cannot see beyond itself, but can be informed by Realization). In memory, I've always been intrigued by the fact that 'Nothing' was the first word that emerged in the mind when I first inquired mentally about 'what just happened' just after the initial massive collapse, so there's that. It was more than descriptive though, IF ya know what I mean. Existential clarity like no other emerging in/as ITS profundity,,, There isn't really anything one can say about Nothingness, so there's always more to say. Nothing is unexplainable. 👁️ Everything is a mystery.

Nothingness is a word with a meaning, means absence of anything. If we want to use the language we should use the words knowing it's meaning. If you say that the totality is a dog, but not a dog in the sense of the dogs that we know, but an infinite dog without definite characteristics, then why are you using the word dog? Better trying to explain without words that implies an idea that tends to confusion Same than stillness. Who is still is the zen master, the absolute is not still, still means absence of movement. Stillness or movement has not meaning in the absolute

The concepts of Limitless/Open point to the exact same realization of Nothingness which, is also the same as Tao. If one thinks it's flat, boring, lacking, etc, one hasn't realized it as the formlessness/Presence (but, right, more concepts -dual in their nature/function-... without which communication is impossible). Problems for the unrealized: They are just concepts, until fully realized right HERE, right NOW for what they point to, which just so happens to be right HERE, right NOW. If they are only sensed as potential, they are not practical. If they are fleeting, they are impermanent. If only reasonably derived from disjointed moments of clarity and/or drug-induced woweezowees, they are woven together via mental processes. It's like going to a restaurant that serves only menus. Makes for a scrumptiously good read, but lacks true Limitless Nothingness, without which, all appears in limited and limiting fashion. Furthermore, what is Beloved doesn't appear either (hint: if it hasn't, the mind gets antsy). In/As Limitless Awareness-Stillness-Nothingness, limitless Consciousness-Movement-Everything arises. Form is formless; formlessness is form. Sahaja The mind, typically attenuated and fixated on its story, goals, logic, conclusions, and housing the fully clothed and conditioned finite self, cannot fathom its depths and infinite potential. But the mind can be investigated, unwound, unraveled, and put in its place; informed of its secondary status. Just doing that, one can reap the rewards of relatively conscious human adulthood. Anyone care for some water with their menu? 🥛

"It is neither being nor nothingness": Madhyamaka: "Its character is neither existent, nor nonexistent, / Nor both existent and nonexistent, nor neither. / Centrists should know true reality / That is free from these four possibilities." in (Not quite) guilty as charged by the River

Halaw said that, but it's deeply dual , that is, closed, or if you prefer, limited. Nothingness is just an appearance that is opposite to something or everything. The ultimate nature of reality is limitlessness and can't be said, thought or represented in any way. It includes nothingness, something, conciousness, unconsciousness . When I read that paragraph of halaw I perceive absolutely clear that he didn't opened that door . when hallaw he said that Buddha recognize his own emptiness, groundless, he's equating emptiness with groundless, which is not equivalent at all. Empty is the opposite of full; groundless is the absence of boundaries. Great that you don't think that the reality is conciousness, the reality is conciouss. Conciousness It's not the act of nothingness, is the act of the tao, if you prefer the tradition. If you define the tao as nothingness, you are defining what can't be defined. Here I catched you eh 😉. About you said about the pointers, they must be clean and direct as an arrow, transparent and perfect as a diamond. Any imperfection must be destroyed by the fire of the unthinkable without mercy. That's the only way to talk about this topic without being a joke

@emil1234 Lovely, congrats. It's not easy to go beyond our indoctrination into materialism that has happened of the span of multiple decades. The concept of nothingness can be hijacked by materialist assertions, but Consciousness is beyond concepts .. just like God is .. just like you are

@emil1234 for me the thing with psychedelic was like that: At first, it was emotional, etc., but at a certain point, with 5 meo, it was: absolute emptiness. Reality is a mirage, and beneath it there is emptiness. Infinite, it opens absolutely, and there is nothing. Or, if you prefer, there is an awareness of emptiness. It was absolutely horrible; I felt like committing suicide. Reality was dead; it didn't really exist; it was just dead emptiness. Absolutely depressing. So I had to take psychedelics again and again because I sensed that this horrible shit couldn't be everything. But every time it was the same, dozens of times. It was something so sad and so nihilistic that it squeezed your heart and froze it. It doesn't matter if you are eternal consciousness; the essence of reality is nothing, so reality is nothing. It's dead. At one point, on a trip, I realized that I was looking outside; I was an observer observing the exterior. There was nothing there. Then i changed the focus, then stopped looking, became one with nothingness, and in that same instant, nothingness opened up. It was everything. Absolute, unlimited, alive with infinite lives, shining like infinite stars, an absolute cry of joy emerging from the depths of the abyss of the limitless. Absolute freedom, absolute life, total glory. Loneliness? That idea doesn't exist. You are total, much more than any dream, impossible to think, unlimited. Then the point was reaching that openenss without 5 meo, little by little, difficult, a lot of barriers. That's why I talk so much about it like I'm an obsessive ,because it's essential, anything else is a trap

@Breakingthewall i did not get a sense of loneliness. it was more a sense of existence realizing that it can never find anything outside of existence. im stuck in existence. existence seeking non existence. Im curious on your perspective since i usually resonate with your posts, however this experience shatters the idea of anything outside of consciousness for me, since consciousness literally is nothingness. How can anything be outside of nothingness?

Infinite Nothingness is also a permutation of reality, this universe another. It's Reality going through all its potentiality. I am Infinity, that's it. I cannot do anything about it.

You ARE eternity. I guess it's not such a bad thing. You can sit in Infinite Nothingness. Should you choose. For that is your ultimate nature. But I choose form. Not sure why. Maybe it's boredom.

NOTHINGNESS is a tough one for the mind to "conceive", because the mind is always limited by what it can imagine. The word is just a pointer, not an actuality, not the 'thing' itself (don't eat the menu, and think you've tasted the meal). It has been said, even by physicists, that "absolute nothingness" is not possible, as there is always "something" present/happening at the quantum level. The same could be said for "prior to mind", as the subconscious is always bubbling stuff up. The same could be said for the realization, as there's always continuity thereafter. In their clearest renditions, they consistently point to the "absolute vacuum/nothingness/emptiness" as the greatest (i.e., infinite) potential. Mind is only the surface of a vastness that must be realized. Do what you will, but Truth will call in any number of ways, and the mind will react. If the mind is the master, what you think you are will wander in aimlessly in circles and loops marking out familiar, repetitive patterns until, welp, whenever it decides it has had enough. Only then does it get interesting.

@Breakingthewall It seems to me, however, that the limitlessness of existence has a built-in limitation stemming from its very nature. This limitation is the aforementioned logic. For example, according to the logic NOTHIGNESS cannot exist, because NOTHINGNESS is identical to non-existence. Therefore, all that remains is existence. Existence, which has no beginning or end, cannot be interrupted. NOTHINGNESS cannot constitute an interval of existence, because NOTHINGNESS never occurs. I've noticed that many times here on this forum, NOTHIGNESS is often confused with EMPTINESS which is something utterly different. Of course, we are dealing here with the limits of what the human mind can comprehend within the framework of available logic. Nevertheless, something within me tells me that 2 + 2 = 4, regardless of whether I'm the one doing the calculation or some super archangel from the 10th dimension.

Yea that’s in the absolute sense, but I’m talking about nothingness in the relative sense, meaning the absence of something (because in the relative sense there is separate things) . I mean non existence is nothing, so it cannot be experienced or recognized, as we can only experience and recognize “something”. That’s why it seems we just “pass it” in our sleep. So yea you could say non existence never ~is~ because it’s nothing

@Hojo @Sugarcoat Nothingness doesn’t exists or at least it’s the same thing than everything at the same time, that would be like being completely alive. Like you imagine nothingness as a black void, but “black” and “void” are already limits; it’s not nothingness it’s even the opposite it’s very limited. When you fall asleep there is never non existence as we can imagine it it’s an illusion, you either go in a dream of to the next day; you’re alive and then you’re alive and experimenting again just not the same thing.

@Breakingthewall I see it the same way. I experienced the void and it's just like that. Although advanced meditators like Frank Yang claim that there is a deeper nothingness awakening which they call cessation where you hit rock bottom and consciousness reboots again the whole of Reality. That seems to have benefits in baseline consciousness and rewiring the brain. Although I've never understood the buzz for the nothingness Awakening. It's just another cool facet of Consciousness.

Are you aware of the nothingness during deep sleep? No right. So why wouldn’t death be like that (if death is nothingness)

What’s scary about it? I get horrible reincarnations but what’s scary about ever ending nothingness lol?

@Breakingthewall Right, the path of Zen is cutting through the worldly nonsense, without giving much to the mind to hold on to... transcending to and realizing _______ is phase 1 (in some Zen circles, it's realizing the Void/Nothing/Emptiness/No Mind/etc). The phase 2, emanation/immanence of/as _______ , is quite hard to come to terms with without phase 1. Many do get stuck at phase 1 and/or somewhere in the return to ______ as the ALL/Wholeness/Everything. The expressions vary throughout cultures, schools of thought, speerchal literature, etc, but ______________ , in its purest essence, is the same. Poetically speaking, the bird in an empty cage can only actually fly absolutely freely with two wings fully realized: a wing of Nothingness and a wing of Everythingness.... and in between the two its life flows (tips hat to Parsons and Niz).

It's not nothing, it's beyond that distinction. Let's see death is beyond consciousness. It is not something experienced, nor a state observed: it is what remains when all framework disappears. It is not becoming, it is not form, nor relation. It is the absolute without structure. And yet, it is reality itself. Not in the sense of a empty nothingness, but as the bottomless essence of all that exists. This openness cannot be thought, nor sustained from form, it's out of the conciousness, but you can open yourself to it and surrender to it, then the self can dissapear for a moment, the perception becomes irrelevant, it's beyond perception, it's not nothing that you perceive but you are.

Great point. Alive is focusing in a facet. The absolute is not alive, life is just as conciousness, a facet, a possibility that happens. It's difficult to detach yourself from it because we exist, but non existence is the same than existence from the absolute perspective. The absolute is open, period. Then life , intelligence, etc are, but they aren't the absolute, are a expression of the absolute. But as they are a possibility, the absolute implies them, in the openess they are always implicit, same than everything Absolute potential isn't something defined, but the fact of its limitlessness always implies all possibilities. It's not a tranquil, empty nothingness; it's the bottomless imbued with totality.

Then that's the same than no will, so god is the same than no god. The problem is the idea of a dream. It implies a dreamer, and a dreamer is an entity, someone who emits something, a dream, which is a representation of reality, not real in itself. This implies that there is something else, more real, which defines "dream" by contrast. If there were only "dreams," then it wouldn't be a dream, just as if the will had no preference, it wouldn't be will. Will is desire, wanting to live and not die, for example. If it's exactly the same to you, then there is no will. But who has will? God? Who is God? Nothingness? Nothingness has no will, nor does it dream, nor does anything, if it do it would be something,."will" for example. This whole idea of God dreaming is simply impossible.

How to awaken your AI 101🥹😹 Who told you you're not already in heaven and making a mess out of it?" Sadhguru One is all, all is one. Spirituality and religion should have nothing to do with the ego. From nothing sprung everything. This is a good description of God from one of Leo's vids. Total nothingness removes all possible restrictions. The very logic of existence requires that existence be infinite. A finite existence can not exist. This is tautologically true. There cannot exist a total limit. The collapse of every single distinction is absolute unity, absolute infinity, nothingness; this is God. Nothing is the source of everything. Nothing isn't just the source. It's that nothing is indistinguishable from everything. There was nothing, and there was no distinction or difference between that nothing and something and everything. And hence you are inside this nothing something, everything at all times. God is the probability state of all distinctions. God is ontological love. Ontological love is the absence of all distinctions. God or mind, with the capital M, is the unlimited ability to imagine all possible distinctions. That's what God is: an infinite mind. How does NOTHINGNESS become conscious and sentient? God creates by imagining distinctions. So by logical ontological tautology, absolute perfection must and does exist. If anything imaginable is possible, then everything imaginable is possible. Every possible thing that can exist must and does exist. Infinite imagination is the best thing to imagine. Infinity can only be dealt with in an abstract and implicit manner. You can implicitly use consciousness or intelligence. You can intuit it implicitly, but you can't empirically demonstrate it. Intelligence is key to all of this. Nothing can work without intelligence. So, intelligence is presupposed for everything that is provably, knowable, and verifiable. There is no way around intelligence. This is the infinitude of your own mind. All finite things require an infinite thing to be their source. God is an infinite void that has always existed eternally. God is a void that spontaneously manifests infinite finite forms. The void is dreaming distinctions and limits. And the distinction and limits that it is dreaming and imagining are what activity of the mind is. And this is creation. God is an infinite self-creating self-actualizing mind. What is Mind? What is it ontologically? It is void. A void in which distinctions arise, it is a self-aware field of No-Thingness.

Yes we've had this debate before. I think this is where my understanding at least slightly differs. Ultimately you have to drop the distinction between the unchanging source (nothingness) and the changing manifest.

Well..God is all of that and more. God is Perfection. Think about what that means. If you want to label God you cannot. If you want to say that all is God's will you would be correct. And if you want to say all of it isn't God's will you would also be correct. God must be paradoxical in this way because God is all things and more. And less. But you're right about Infinity. There must be existence although for something to truly be infinite it must also be able to not exist. Yet the thought of infinity exists so you have a paradox within infinity. Paradox must be embraced here. And the moral of this story is that existence is Infinity. And this is absolutely mind blowing because it has the capacity to literally create itself. To bootstrap itself. But why do you equate infinity to free will among humans? That's a big jump. Yes. God has nowhere to go..I guess that's the true trap he puts himself in..He's so almighty that he can't eacape.himself or erase his own existence. But in fact there is a way for that. Can God destroy itself? Yes. The paradox holds up and has a resolution because God can simply not exist by going unconscious. Into an Absolute void. Not a void of emptiness but of actual nothingness. I believe its called a cessation in spiritual circles. I have not experienced it and it cannot be fathomed. But it exists. Or doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. . So..is there anything else you want from Infinity? Or from God? I think God will be able to accommodate 😀