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It's both, depending on your level of consciousness. The Divine Paradox is this: God is in all things, and yet God is not any of those things. Atman = Brahman. Form and formlessness are one. The Absolute is the sum total of everything relative. But practically, you need to learn to distinguish God (Nothingness, formlessness) from all the forms you see around you (Maya). Even though Maya and God are identical, a distinction can still be made between the Absolute and the Relative. Since you're already extremely familiar with the Relative, your work now is to connect with the Absolute. Once you accomplish that, then you can come back into the Relative to see that it's actually not separate from the Absolute. It's sorta like separating an egg yoke from the white, and then merging them back together into one whole egg. You can't appreciate the wholeness of the egg until you've experienced the yoke and white separately.

@Anna1 There is no subtle body. That is an illusion. All distinctions are existentially false. Reality is Nothingness.

@Leo Gura But Leooo, so are you saying there could be non-physical organisms? I've actually never thought about that. I think my core assumption was if something is not in our perception, then it is literally nothingness. But not-perception is still a thing right? So it's not nothingness. And if reality is absolute then it can contain individual souls that had past lives, human egos and pizza galaxies where everything is made out of pizza. Damn, that actually makes sense in a very weird way. But eighter way one part of the dream wouldn't be more spiritual than living as a human ego or an ant. They should be equally ignorant from the nondual perspective.

Vedanta "It is this Akshara (the Imperishable), O Gargi, so the knowers of Brahman say. It is neither gross nor subtle, neither short nor long, not red, not viscid, not shadowy, not dark, not the air, not the ether, not adhesive, tasteless, odourless, without the sense of sight, without the sense of hearing, without the vital principle, mouthless, without measure, neither interior nor exterior,. It eats nothing, nobody eats it." - Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 3-8-8. ............................................................................. Buddhism “There is that dimension, monks, where there is neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor wind; neither dimension of the infinitude of space, nor dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, nor dimension of nothingness, nor dimension of neither perception nor non-perception; neither this world, nor the next world, nor sun, nor moon. And there, I say, there is neither coming, nor going, nor staying; neither passing away nor arising: unestablished, unevolving, without support [mental object]. This, just this, is the end of stress.” - Buddha (in Nibbāna Sutta: Unbinding (1))

@Leo Gura I have experienced a complete ego-death, which showed me all that is arises from nothingness. However, I have difficulity putting this knowledge into actual practical use in the ego game. I think trying to explain/understand what it is on a intellectual level will only make me walk in circles and will do the opposite of becoming enlightened. Isn't the purpose of self-enquiry ultimately to understand that one should stop seeking? Like going full circle to realize one already is and that all external theory will bring you further from the truth? Or is there no such thing as truth at all?

@Principium Nexus You are the Truth. You are the Self. You are Brahman. You are the contents of experience stripped of thought. You are the whole of awareness. You are the holder of the ego as thought. You are not the voice. You are the Truth basking in itself. Don't think of yourself as the screen, that is concept, belief. Whatever you are is nothingness. Pure emptiness. Emptiness is anti-conceptual. That's a huge hint. But all somethingness occurs within emptiness. So you are all non-conceptual somethingness too. The Self is God.

Philosophy leads you nowhere, Moses, Jesus, Buddha and every enlightened master had a realization, they were not philosophizing. The most important thing about India is that it has no philosophy in the same way that other countries have philosophies. The word 'philosophy' means love of knowledge. In India we have never praised love of knowledge; we have praised love of experience. Knowledge can be borrowed, experience cannot be borrowed. That is why we have called our way darshan, not philosophy. To call darshan Indian philosophy is basically wrong. Philosophy is a mind thing - you think about it. Darshan is a realization, a thing of your innermost being; you realize it. Philosophy needs logic; darshan needs silence - no thoughts, everything in absolute nothingness. Only then you will come to know yourself. Philosophy means to think, and darshan means to see. Both are basically different; not only different, but diametrically opposite. Because when you are thinking you cannot see. You are so filled with thoughts that perception is blurred, perception is clouded. When thinking ceases, you become capable of seeing. Then your eyes are opened, they become unclouded. Perception happens only when thinking ceases. So Buddha is not a philosopher; neither is Jesus. They have seen the truth; they have not thought about it.

@Edvard in a way, all the unconscious in the world are also yourself. Your lifetime as an individual is unique. There can't be two exactly equal leaves. But see, why cling to this experience if deep down you know that you are infinite? I was walking on an avenue, and I could see that it wouldn't fucking matter if I threw myself to a car. I was so conscious of my true nature that I become desidentified with my body. Crazy thought have been popping in my head, and the secret here is to trust. No matter what it is, trust. You are the creator of it all. Imagine like all your visual field collapsed and there was a deep nothingness. From that, arises everything. You don't have to change your responses. It is matter of treating yourself with kindness. Become a cool parent to your ego. There are no enemies. If it is hard, take a break.see? The more relaxed you are, the greater love you receive. The more you expand your breath, the more aliveness you will feel. It is a scale. A great question: "Can I let that go?" be honest here. If you can't, let it be. It is there for a reason. Maybe the problem is not that you are getting fat, but that you guilt yourself from eating. The moment you drop your guilt, things will begin to transform automatically You begin to feel like you are flowing with life, just like a cat or a small child are. Do nothing means just being. Ppl, if you approach enlightenment from a neurotic and desperate way, this life-long pursuit will make you miserable. Instead, spoil yourself a little do something that society doesn't approve haha I trust you It's so freaking funny to be in this frequency. I feel like I am just being a channel. Haha. The moment you trust yourself is the moment you become whole again. You become a force of Nature once again. You become as strong as a fucking waterfall or a volcano ? hahaha and you don't even have to make effort. Hahaha. You just sit back and let God work itself through you. Hahaha. it's amazing. You remember the funniness of this human incarnation. Haha. Watch your ego wanting to get serious. Haha. I hope you have noticed that you have noticed that. The stairway to liberation comes when you become yourself once again. When you relax like a child. When you move with such softness that it feels like your making love. you won't get too far by hating yourself. You are exactly where you needed to be. Got that? Haha Hahaha you're a joke. Remember? Hahaha aw.. No matter where you go, the Divine controls you. Freaky, uh?

@Weltschmerz I've had the same issue since Leo's video. I used to be fucking scared of Hell going to a Christian High School. I've been able to put all that behind me but for some reason, probably because I trust Leo as my source of information, it really fucked me up thinking that Demons/Hell etc exist. I realise it's got nothing to do with him and just my quality of mind and web of beliefs that have re-inserted / re-surfaced this, but obviously it's difficult to deal with when you think "hey all possiblities are possible, so that means i could probably just be stuck in the hell that I keep imaging. I keep thinking i'll attract it by putting my worry and attention on it. I can't even watch Leo's video on Absolute Infinity at the moment because my anxiety has returned! I brewed some Ayhuasca the other day but it was fairly light strength. It was a really difficult mild trip because my thinking / ego brain was quite active and I kept going into negative thoughts and feelings. Every time my consciousness went into nothingness and tried to let go of my Ego to experience absolute infinity I felt myself grasping in fear of that potential evil that may await. It's fucked up because I've spent the last year getting rid of my anxiety and felt super grounded. I've been able to have many heavy trips without any issue at all as well. I'm going to trust this is part of my purification process since I had a really heavy awakening / enlightenment experience the night before that mild experience and I've been struggling living in this reality ever since. If anyone has any further techniques or advice on dealing with this it would be much appreciated.

Just curious. The sound of nothingness is the only sound that remains.

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum but have been following Actualized.org for about two years. Here I describe a possible analogy for the enlightened self with a short into in brackets below: (I believe I experienced non-egoic consciousness/ had an enlightenment experience recently. There was huge shift in perspective for me and suddenly all of Leo's videos on the true self/ enlightenment made a lot of sense. The experience made me want to delve deeper into this area and this post is simply a request for Leo or others who have experienced this to determine if this analogy I'm about to share fits in with our understanding of what the true self actually is . The analogy is simply for me and others to understand the true self better (given that this analogy I share fits in with our understanding). The analogy: The true self is the nothingness that existed before the big bang. Imagine a white orb on a black background. According to our current understanding of the universe, all that existed came from this extremely dense "thing" that exploded and gave rise to the universe. Given that the true self is nothing, and everything occurs within the true self, and the true self is infinite, could the nothingness that encapsulates everything in the universe (at this point condensed into the orb) be the true self or even an analogy to the true self? A secondary explanation may help: for those that have experienced a phenomenon in videogames where you glitch and fall through the map into a void, could this empty, infinite void be analogous to the true self?

Meaning exists for egos because nothingness wants meaning. It wants all kinds of things. The meaning of everything is that nothing wants meaning.

@Principium Nexus I have a sense of nihilism after that experience. I don't know how to continue operating as if I am a human on a planet interacting with other humans. It feels so strongly like I have created this entire perceived existence and that even evolution didn't actually manifest within nothingness, that perhaps I made up that story to give myself a perspective in which to operate as a self. Did I imagine all the Gurus of the ages, did I imagine Leo? How "real" is "mine" and "everybody elses'" existence exactly? Is "being alive" a thing? I can't tell if i'm going to deep on the questioning now, but when I was losing my mind I just could not understand how "ANYTHING" could possibly actually exist at all.

My friend and I went camping in the forest for 2 nights. The first night we "candy flipped" 200mg MDMA, then 320mg LSD 2 hours later. I was enjoying the heart opening of the MDMA and realised that I'm quite authentic in general because I don't tend to open up much more than usual on it. There's still some enjoyable body feels and conversations with my friend become additionally loving. When the LSD started kicking in, I was feeling quite unsettled. I had been contemplating Leo's video about the Paranormal. Before starting down the Actualization path I had a fear of Hell, because I was brought up in a Christian High School, and they drilled us with the consequences of not signing up to their dogma. I had been feeling quite comfortable in the knowing of God and Non-Duality but this really threw a spanner into the works and re-implanted thoughts and fears into my web of beliefs. So anyway I started freaking out a bit for the first time in a long while, even after some previously heavy trips . My friend guided me to lie down and I surrendered to the experience. The loving warmth of God started to wash away the fear and I started to calm down and relax into it. I arose 10 minutes later and proceeded to sit near the fire. For the next few hours some very interesting feelings and “knowings” started to arise. I started getting orgasmic body sensations. I was squatting in stillness near the fire trying to embed myself into the loving warmth. It was utterly orgasmic. I was literally making orgasm sounds. I felt myself sinking into nothingness over and over. I looked up at my friend and I was like “REALLY?”, “NO WAY”, he replied “I know, I KNOW”. For the next hour we literally kept repeating the same thing over and over. We were both experiencing the cosmic joke. There was this raw infinite energy just pouring out from within us. I started ripping and dropping heavy chains off myself to the floor. I was getting lighter and lighter. My awareness / consciousness was sky rocketing. I let out a primal growl and shock wave of energy exploded from within. I looked at my friend and he looked at me with a sort of sadness. He said “it’s all done”, “it’s all done”, It’s ALL done”. We were on a higher plane of existence, like how heaven would feel like. Looking him in the face, I saw myself plain as day in his eyes. It was as crystal clear as looking in the mirror. I had seen through the cosmic joke. THIS IS IT, THIS IS IT. It was the only way, the only way. I had to trick myself into believing I exist. I had to trick myself into fetching sticks and chopping wood. It was the only way, the only way. Because I am nothingness. Shit, I have awoken. I seriously couldn’t put this experience into words. I’ve experienced myself as God before on 10 grams of mushrooms. This was so different, so different. I honestly thought that I was done, that I was awake for good. That maybe that night I would just dissolve into nothingness. Of course the Ego is too sneaky for that. I am back, and I am so confused. I feel like I KNOW the truth, but it’s so, so hard to accept. I have imagined this entire reality, and now I’m typing to myself. Help…

I watched Leo's video on authenticity. But, from a practical standpoint, I still don't understand what it means to live authentically. If my highest self is nothingness, what the hell does it mean to act authentically? There is no authentic self. That's an illusion. Honestly, I do not understand this concept. I understand living virtuously, but there is no authentic core to you. That's all ego. Personality is all ego, all illusion. Maybe we should be resisting the notion of authentic self. It solidifies us into thinking that the egoic self is the true self. Please watch these two videos back to back and then comment.

I have a feeling he would "want to say",,, we are already enlightened,,,, and always have been, but we cant or wont accept it yet... So he does not tell us ... Isnt that the job of a yogi or enlightened person, is to actively try to bulshit us until we admit to ourselves.. "this guy is no more than us, we are already enlightened" lets face it have you ever not been in the now.. have you ever not been aware.. have we ever not been conscious... Yeah sure we can move our focus from nothingness to awareness to presence to thought ect... at will.. but that could be a feature, not a bug...

Don't just accept what someone else has told you. Chances are you don't have any idea what you are so 'Nothingness' is just another concept. Unless you're directly conscious of what you are, which may or may not be nothingness, you need to throw out all your ideas and beliefs.

QUOTED BY USER SHANMUGAM "This is the result of trying to philosophizing too much... You are awareness but you are not the concept of awareness.. Anything that you think about awareness is a concept, and that concept is not you. And if you notice anything that seems like anything, it is not you either. Don't try to twist your head to look at your own eyes, you will end up mistaking something that you see for your eyes.. Anything that you see with your eyes cannot be your eyes. Any word to define who you really are is not the right word.. People have chosen the words awareness or nothingness because they are close in pointing out what it is.." I think this helps me understand things.

I'm having a slight brain melt down here. If you can follow and understand me please offer your thoughts. Am I asking you all to communicate the incommunicable experience that is enlightenment itself? If enlightenment is the destruction of the ego and 'realisation' that oneself is not a separate entity and is actually everything/nothingness/infinity then what are we doing living these 'lives' with these crazy egos. It seems the purpose of everything is to know that we are everything? Or in other words... If we all are this void/infinity/nothingness. What am I just now with this ego? Am I still the infinity? This is possibly the hardest thing I have ever tried to communicate to someone else.

@Joseph Maynor This is the result of trying to philosophizing too much... You are awareness but you are not the concept of awareness.. Anything that you think about awareness is a concept, and that concept is not you. And if you notice anything that seems like anything, it is not you either. Don't try to twist your head to look at your own eyes, you will end up mistaking something that you see for your eyes.. Anything that you see with your eyes cannot be your eyes. Any word to define who you really are is not the right word.. People have chosen the words awareness or nothingness because they are close in pointing out what it is..

This is a little tricky. I accept the fact that I am nothingness. I have confirmed that and am working to accept it. But awareness seems like a sense in nothingness. Therefore I may not be awareness. You wouldn't say that you are your sense of sight. But maybe awareness is like a sense in nothingness too.

I haven't personally experienced infinity (yet) but I find it incredibly satisfying to think of it as absolutely infinite. When I was a kid I always had this thought: Why is there something at all? Why isn't there nothing? But absolute nothingness and absolute infinitely everything are logically the same thing. The one cannot exist without the other. So there just has to be everything. And well if there is absolute infinity then what you experience right now couldn't not be.

hi. there's no ultimate authority other than intuition and direct experience. these words on the screen are made out of nothingness and there's nobody actually reading them. they're just floating in the field of awareness. what is the fundamental truth behind words? be eternally free.

I use to be a Christian. Learning non-duality made Jesus' teachings makes more sense. God to me right now means nothingness. Even saying that makes it into somethingness God is

If we are nothingness there is no time applicable to that, or space. Space and time are part of the illusion of identity. We are the source of what ultimately makes the concept of time meaningful. Time comes out of nothingness and dissolves back into it.